For discussing go computing, software announcements, etc.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:00 pm
xela wrote: $$Wc Move 18, white to play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Move 18, white to play
As black, I get nervous in this type of position: I remember my teacher saying "you just kick to make white heavy, then attack", but the attack always seems to fizzle out. Those two stones are surprisingly resilient! (See discussion of
Kirby's recent game : slightly different context, but similar idea.) LZ-258 has trouble choosing between
a through
c for white's next move. The game move (not KataGo's choice as the self-play for this game starts from move 26) is not on LZ's radar, but gets rated as equally good when I show it to LZ, even though to me it looks slightly outrageous. Try to guess what the game move is, then check the SGf below
Interestingly, KataGo thinks white's standard response to the kick at D14 is the "worst" move in AGT's opening sequence, losing 2.0 pp at 30,000 playouts. (Of course, it's worthy to keep in mind that every move in AGT's database received 10,000,000 playouts.) KataGo thinks white should tenuki to attach at Q16 instead.
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pmHas thanked: 3651 times Been thanked: 3373 times
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by Bill Spight Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:54 am
Maharani wrote: Interestingly, KataGo thinks white's standard response to the kick at D14 is the "worst" move in AGT's opening sequence, losing 2.0 pp at 30,000 playouts. (Of course, it's worthy to keep in mind that every move in AGT's database received 10,000,000 playouts.) KataGo thinks white should tenuki to attach at Q16 instead.
With only a 2% difference, especially at only 30k playouts, I think that it's better to say that KataGo prefers Q16.
The Adkins Principle:At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:40 am
Bill Spight wrote: Maharani wrote: Interestingly, KataGo thinks white's standard response to the kick at D14 is the "worst" move in AGT's opening sequence, losing 2.0 pp at 30,000 playouts. (Of course, it's worthy to keep in mind that every move in AGT's database received 10,000,000 playouts.) KataGo thinks white should tenuki to attach at Q16 instead.
With only a 2% difference, especially at only 30k playouts, I think that it's better to say that KataGo prefers Q16.
That's definitely fair enough
However, even at just 2.0 pp, it visibly remains one of the biggest winrate changes of the first 100 moves in the chart for all three games that contain this position...
https://i.ibb.co/KrnGWHT/Screen-Shot-20 ... -06-AM.png
https://i.ibb.co/QjnJ8rM/Screen-Shot-20 ... -24-AM.png
https://i.ibb.co/mTHrcKy/Screen-Shot-20 ... -08-AM.png
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:47 pm
KataGo self-play (New Zealand rules, 7 komi) - game 1:
https://online-go.com/review/442122
It was not a tie.
$$Wc Starting at game 44, we will explore 3-4 openings as well.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Starting at game 44, we will explore 3-4 openings as well.
.sgf file:
Comments by EverettLiu, OGS 9d.
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_1.sgf (11.95 KiB) Downloaded 4485 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 14 times in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:33 pm
KataGo self-play (New Zealand rules, 7 komi) - game 2:
https://online-go.com/review/446099
Not a tie, either. In fact, the shortest self-play game in this thread so far. Each side has huge territories.
$$Bc At least thirty-five games continue at D4. Eighteen games continue at a instead.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc At least thirty-five games continue at D4. Eighteen games continue at a instead.
.sgf file:
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_2.sgf (1.82 KiB) Downloaded 4679 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:47 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:34 pm
After one win from each colour, we have our first tie!
KataGo self-play (New Zealand rules, 7 komi) - game 3:
https://online-go.com/review/447990
Interesting winrate graph:
https://i.ibb.co/rpyTgR3/Screen-Shot-20 ... -55-AM.png
$$Wc Game 2 continued at a instead of G4. Game 5 will split off at b.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Game 2 continued at a instead of G4. Game 5 will split off at b.
.sgf file:
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_3.sgf (2.3 KiB) Downloaded 1684 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:32 am, edited 4 times in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:39 am
Game 4 (self-play, New Zealand rules, 7 komi) featured four dragons duking it out in the center. One side sacrifices eighteen stones and ends up winning the game by 72 points or so. New title holder of "shortest game in this thread"
https://online-go.com/demo/view/448780
$$Bc Game 1 continued at a instead of F17. Game 40 will continue at b.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Game 1 continued at a instead of F17. Game 40 will continue at b.
.sgf file:
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_4.sgf (1.67 KiB) Downloaded 1707 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:37 pm
Game 5 is our newest winner of "shortest game in the thread so far": W+20 or so.
https://online-go.com/demo/view/448967
At some point, I'll split a game at a instead of M5:
$$Wc Game 11 will continue at a instead of M5.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Game 11 will continue at a instead of M5.
.sgf file:
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_5.sgf (1.54 KiB) Downloaded 1713 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:25 am
Game 6 is our newest- you guys get the gist by now. How short can these games get?
Hopeless for black at move 184. White seems to be up by 16 - 18 points.
https://online-go.com/demo/view/450285
$$Wc In game 2, black played at a instead of R14.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc In game 2, black played at a instead of R14.
.sgf file:
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_6.sgf (1.47 KiB) Downloaded 1680 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:22 pm
xela wrote: Here are a few interesting moments from game 1:
I've added more KataGo variations to all of your suggested Leela Zero variations for KataGo + AlphaGo Teach games 1 and 2.
.sgf file with comments for game 1:
Attachments
KG_+_AGT_game_1.sgf (15.22 KiB) Downloaded 1690 times
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:11 pm
Game 2 in particular is now chock-full of endgame sequences that can only be described as elaborate.
.sgf file with comments:
In other news, KataGo (NZ rules, 7 komi) self-play game 7, which is currently under way, will introduce 3-4 points into the fuseki.
EDIT: Added .sgf embeds for all KataGo NZ self-play games in this thread.
Attachments
KG_+_AGT_game_2.sgf (7.65 KiB) Downloaded 1655 times
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:26 am
KataGo (NZ rules, 7 komi) self-play game 7 - black wins by 26 points or so:
https://online-go.com/review/452290
This brings our current tally to 2 black wins, 1 tie and 4 white wins.
$$Wc Game 7 and seventeen other games continue at D17. Five games continue at a instead. At least ten games will continue at b.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Game 7 and seventeen other games continue at D17. Five games continue at a instead. At least ten games will continue at b.
.sgf file:
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kg_7_komi_game_7.sgf (1.54 KiB) Downloaded 1326 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:57 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:38 pm
KataGo (NZ rules, 7 komi) self-play game 8 turned into an early center fight. Black won by 8 or so:
https://online-go.com/demo/view/454459
$$Wc Game 7 continued at a instead of J17.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Game 7 continued at a instead of J17.
.sgf:
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Maharani on Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:29 am
Can you say messy and complicated? If you can, that means you're equipped to describe game 9 (NZ rules, 7 komi).
Half of the board turns into a giant semeai, and white wins by 76 points or so.
https://online-go.com/review/456124
$$Bc In game 1, white played at a instead of D10. Three games will continue at b. Eight games will continue at c.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc In game 1, white played at a instead of D10. Three games will continue at b. Eight games will continue at c.
.sgf:
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_9.sgf (2.46 KiB) Downloaded 1544 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Mon May 16, 2022 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249 Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 amRank: OGS 9 kyuGD Posts: 0OGS: MaharaniLocation: Pasadena, USAHas thanked: 80 times Been thanked: 12 times
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by Maharani Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:34 pm
Game 10 (NZ rules, 7 komi) was the first close game since the tie in game 3, white by 2 points it looks like. Peaceful game with huge territories on either side. Quite pleasing-looking to this 11k human
https://online-go.com/demo/view/456362
$$Bc Game 73 continues at a instead of F11.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Game 73 continues at a instead of F11.
.sgf:
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_10.sgf (25.27 KiB) Downloaded 1257 times
Last edited by
Maharani on Sat May 14, 2022 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
