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KataGo self-play games + video reviews

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=17217

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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:00 pm
by Maharani
xela wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 18, white to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . c X . . |
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$$ | . . W W . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
As black, I get nervous in this type of position: I remember my teacher saying "you just kick to make white heavy, then attack", but the attack always seems to fizzle out. Those two stones are surprisingly resilient! (See discussion of Kirby's recent game: slightly different context, but similar idea.) LZ-258 has trouble choosing between a through c for white's next move. The game move (not KataGo's choice as the self-play for this game starts from move 26) is not on LZ's radar, but gets rated as equally good when I show it to LZ, even though to me it looks slightly outrageous. Try to guess what the game move is, then check the SGf below :-)
Interestingly, KataGo thinks white's standard response to the kick at D14 is the "worst" move in AGT's opening sequence, losing 2.0 pp at 30,000 playouts. (Of course, it's worthy to keep in mind that every move in AGT's database received 10,000,000 playouts.) KataGo thinks white should tenuki to attach at Q16 instead.

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:54 am
by Bill Spight
Maharani wrote:Interestingly, KataGo thinks white's standard response to the kick at D14 is the "worst" move in AGT's opening sequence, losing 2.0 pp at 30,000 playouts. (Of course, it's worthy to keep in mind that every move in AGT's database received 10,000,000 playouts.) KataGo thinks white should tenuki to attach at Q16 instead.
With only a 2% difference, especially at only 30k playouts, I think that it's better to say that KataGo prefers Q16. :)

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:40 am
by Maharani
Bill Spight wrote:
Maharani wrote:Interestingly, KataGo thinks white's standard response to the kick at D14 is the "worst" move in AGT's opening sequence, losing 2.0 pp at 30,000 playouts. (Of course, it's worthy to keep in mind that every move in AGT's database received 10,000,000 playouts.) KataGo thinks white should tenuki to attach at Q16 instead.
With only a 2% difference, especially at only 30k playouts, I think that it's better to say that KataGo prefers Q16. :)
That's definitely fair enough :) However, even at just 2.0 pp, it visibly remains one of the biggest winrate changes of the first 100 moves in the chart for all three games that contain this position...

https://i.ibb.co/KrnGWHT/Screen-Shot-20 ... -06-AM.png

https://i.ibb.co/QjnJ8rM/Screen-Shot-20 ... -24-AM.png

https://i.ibb.co/mTHrcKy/Screen-Shot-20 ... -08-AM.png

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:47 pm
by Maharani
KataGo self-play (New Zealand rules, 7 komi) - game 1: https://online-go.com/review/442122

It was not a tie.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Starting at game 44, we will explore 3-4 openings as well.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B a . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf file:



Comments by EverettLiu, OGS 9d.

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:33 pm
by Maharani
KataGo self-play (New Zealand rules, 7 komi) - game 2: https://online-go.com/review/446099

Not a tie, either. In fact, the shortest self-play game in this thread so far. Each side has huge territories.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc At least thirty-five games continue at D4. Eighteen games continue at a instead.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf file:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:34 pm
by Maharani
After one win from each colour, we have our first tie! :)

KataGo self-play (New Zealand rules, 7 komi) - game 3: https://online-go.com/review/447990

Interesting winrate graph: https://i.ibb.co/rpyTgR3/Screen-Shot-20 ... -55-AM.png
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 2 continued at a instead of G4. Game 5 will split off at b.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . O . O B . . . . . . a X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf file:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:39 am
by Maharani
Game 4 (self-play, New Zealand rules, 7 komi) featured four dragons duking it out in the center. One side sacrifices eighteen stones and ends up winning the game by 72 points or so. New title holder of "shortest game in this thread" :)

https://online-go.com/demo/view/448780
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 1 continued at a instead of F17. Game 40 will continue at b.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf file:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:37 pm
by Maharani
Game 5 is our newest winner of "shortest game in the thread so far": W+20 or so. https://online-go.com/demo/view/448967

At some point, I'll split a game at a instead of M5:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 11 will continue at a instead of M5.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . X . O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . a . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O . . . . . O O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf file:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:25 am
by Maharani
Game 6 is our newest- you guys get the gist by now. How short can these games get? :) Hopeless for black at move 184. White seems to be up by 16 - 18 points. https://online-go.com/demo/view/450285
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc In game 2, black played at a instead of R14.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
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$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . O O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf file:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:22 pm
by Maharani
xela wrote:Here are a few interesting moments from game 1:
I've added more KataGo variations to all of your suggested Leela Zero variations for KataGo + AlphaGo Teach games 1 and 2.

.sgf file with comments for game 1:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:11 pm
by Maharani
Game 2 in particular is now chock-full of endgame sequences that can only be described as elaborate. :)

.sgf file with comments:



In other news, KataGo (NZ rules, 7 komi) self-play game 7, which is currently under way, will introduce 3-4 points into the fuseki. :)

EDIT: Added .sgf embeds for all KataGo NZ self-play games in this thread.

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:26 am
by Maharani
KataGo (NZ rules, 7 komi) self-play game 7 - black wins by 26 points or so: https://online-go.com/review/452290

This brings our current tally to 2 black wins, 1 tie and 4 white wins.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 7 and seventeen other games continue at D17. Five games continue at a instead. At least ten games will continue at b.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf file:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:38 pm
by Maharani
KataGo (NZ rules, 7 komi) self-play game 8 turned into an early center fight. Black won by 8 or so: https://online-go.com/demo/view/454459
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 7 continued at a instead of J17.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . B . O . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . X X a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O . . . . . . . . . , . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:29 am
by Maharani
Can you say messy and complicated? If you can, that means you're equipped to describe game 9 (NZ rules, 7 komi). :) Half of the board turns into a giant semeai, and white wins by 76 points or so. https://online-go.com/review/456124
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc In game 1, white played at a instead of D10. Three games will continue at b. Eight games will continue at c.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:34 pm
by Maharani
Game 10 (NZ rules, 7 komi) was the first close game since the tie in game 3, white by 2 points it looks like. Peaceful game with huge territories on either side. Quite pleasing-looking to this 11k human :) https://online-go.com/demo/view/456362
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 73 continues at a instead of F11.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a X X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

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