Life In 19x19

Analysis per move
your opening looks fairly high level, which is not unusual for relative beginners;
- 21-25 is not ideal, but it's not a major loss;
- a move like 41 suggests you have learned with or from bots, or people who have done so
you struggle more in the middle game, which is also common for studious beginners
- 51 is the right idea but the wrong technique
- 61 is a very good move and shows the right idea and the right technique
- 75 however loses sight of the real goal: you're taking piecemeal while you should attack wholesale
- 81 and 85 show signs of despair: "attacking" a group by attaching to it, close to your own strength ...
- 89: back to form with an "eye stealing tesuji", attacking the weakest group; nice!
- but in the next moves you just answer where the opponent plays, instead of following up on your plan
- 105 is worth -2 or worse, probably you saw something that looked like a throw-in but it wasn't there; this tells me you were probably playing very fast at that point
- 107 & 109 show you realize you are behind and you need to do something about that big area to come back in the game; the plan looks unreasonable but it's a plan
- 119 & 121 show a new plan: "if I can't destroy, I'll build"; again, not bad thinking
- but then 135 & 137, led astray by White's defenses, lose sight again of the job to kill white's invasion of your top
- 141 & 143: back to the plan! good
- 169: after a long battle, White is allowed to live with 70
- 171: you take your final chance to attack White's last weakish group; again, killing it is not really possible but it's your best shot
- 179: stops trying
- 194: White destroys all hope to do something here and the game is over at "your level"

In summary, as far as this game is representative

Upside:
- good opening
- good ideas in the middle game; there's often a plan going on
- fighting spirit, though fluctuating
- intuition for shape is not bad

To improve
- in close combat, your technique deteriorates
- try to follow through; your plans erupt and die down; you lose sight of the plan and abandon it prematurely
- try to combine your plans; find moves that do two things; e.g. build while attacking
- evaluate if you really have to play where the opponent just played
- aren't you playing too fast?

Enjoy!

jlt wrote:Here are a few ideas.

takes some points in the corner, but is not urgent (because your two stones can extend in one or another direction) and doesn't threaten any white group, so it is better to play a bigger point: C6 (approach a corner) or C14 (enclose a corner) for instance.

is better at C18.

why do you want to take that stone? It is not big. You are attacking a group, what is your strategy? How do you want to profit from the attack? One way would be to enclose the group with M10. Hopefully White will live in gote and you will get a wall. That wall may help you later, either to build a moyo on the top, or to support an invasion around B12.

It is not very useful to struggle here. White is almost alive now, and you won't make a lot of profit on the bottom. The top is bigger, you can try to make points there. Or you can invade around B12.

Move 109: this invasion is almost hopeless because White is very strong around. I understand that you have to try something as you are behind. At move 115, you can try B8 instead of the solid connection. With that kind of shape, you can often get at least a ko (if White A10 then Black A9). I don't think it works but since you are behind you can try.

Move 143: your last hope is to kill the white group. I am not sure it is possible, but in general, playing at the third line (H17) is more efficient than the fourth line because it removes your opponent's base. If you play on the fourth line, the opponent can slide underneath.

Move 170: White is alive, game over.

Knotwilg wrote:Analysis per move
your opening looks fairly high level, which is not unusual for relative beginners;
- 21-25 is not ideal, but it's not a major loss;
- a move like 41 suggests you have learned with or from bots, or people who have done so
you struggle more in the middle game, which is also common for studious beginners
- 51 is the right idea but the wrong technique
- 61 is a very good move and shows the right idea and the right technique
- 75 however loses sight of the real goal: you're taking piecemeal while you should attack wholesale
- 81 and 85 show signs of despair: "attacking" a group by attaching to it, close to your own strength ...
- 89: back to form with an "eye stealing tesuji", attacking the weakest group; nice!
- but in the next moves you just answer where the opponent plays, instead of following up on your plan
- 105 is worth -2 or worse, probably you saw something that looked like a throw-in but it wasn't there; this tells me you were probably playing very fast at that point
- 107 & 109 show you realize you are behind and you need to do something about that big area to come back in the game; the plan looks unreasonable but it's a plan
- 119 & 121 show a new plan: "if I can't destroy, I'll build"; again, not bad thinking
- but then 135 & 137, led astray by White's defenses, lose sight again of the job to kill white's invasion of your top
- 141 & 143: back to the plan! good
- 169: after a long battle, White is allowed to live with 70
- 171: you take your final chance to attack White's last weakish group; again, killing it is not really possible but it's your best shot
- 179: stops trying
- 194: White destroys all hope to do something here and the game is over at "your level"

In summary, as far as this game is representative

Upside:
- good opening
- good ideas in the middle game; there's often a plan going on
- fighting spirit, though fluctuating
- intuition for shape is not bad

To improve
- in close combat, your technique deteriorates
- try to follow through; your plans erupt and die down; you lose sight of the plan and abandon it prematurely
- try to combine your plans; find moves that do two things; e.g. build while attacking
- evaluate if you really have to play where the opponent just played
- aren't you playing too fast?

Enjoy!

Thanks a lot for your advice guys. I really appreciate it, thanks for your time.
I'm ashamed to say that it was a correspondance game. So if I indeed played fast sometimes, it's entirely my own fault, and not time pressure.

For comparison, here is a live game that I just played. It is much messier and I have made obvious mistakes as well. I still won but I feel I should have done better.

Triton wrote:For comparison, here is a live game that I just played. It is much messier and I have made obvious mistakes as well. I still won but I feel I should have done better.

A massacre!

The kill in the bottom left was supreme! What do you think could have been better?

Knotwilg wrote:

Triton wrote:For comparison, here is a live game that I just played. It is much messier and I have made obvious mistakes as well. I still won but I feel I should have done better.

A massacre!

The kill in the bottom left was supreme! What do you think could have been better?

Thanks, that's nice to read
Some remarks on my side:
- 77 is a misclick. I wanted to play G8. I need to be more careful about that.
- 103, I don't think I needed to play this move but it just felt safer.
- The death of my stones on the lower right was avoidable and I should have seen it.
- 195, I wonder if I could have killed or hurt that group more. Not sure at all about this move.
- 223 and 225, I didn't need to play there I think.

Yes, you made a few mistakes, but you also made good moves, so overall the game was not so bad compared to your correspondence games.

Additional remarks:

For if you didn't have the intention to play the ko, the solid connection C18 was better.

can be played elsewhere. The two stones are not important, they are not cutting stones and if White captures, you can still live with B16.


Even if was a misclick, it was a good move. When you try to kill a group, it is generally a good idea to be solid, and the kosumi doesn't leave any weaknesses.

is not needed. If White plays at A8 you can play at A6 and vice-versa.

Triton, I agree with your analyses, except hat 77 is more than ok, as jlt explained.

While 25 and following are indeed bad, I would also reconsider 23. Any ideas how to avoid that dire situation by playing a different move for 23?

jlt wrote:Yes, you made a few mistakes, but you also made good moves, so overall the game was not so bad compared to your correspondence games.

Additional remarks:

For if you didn't have the intention to play the ko, the solid connection C18 was better.

can be played elsewhere. The two stones are not important, they are not cutting stones and if White captures, you can still live with B16.


Even if was a misclick, it was a good move. When you try to kill a group, it is generally a good idea to be solid, and the kosumi doesn't leave any weaknesses.

is not needed. If White plays at A8 you can play at A6 and vice-versa.

Indeed, good points. Crazy to think how many moves can be gained when you just stop replying unnecessarily.

Knotwilg wrote:Triton, I agree with your analyses, except hat 77 is more than ok, as jlt explained.

While 25 and following are indeed bad, I would also reconsider 23. Any ideas how to avoid that dire situation by playing a different move for 23?

Simplest idea is to play at C18, but it seems to me that the cut at F17 works. If my reading is correct, if white replies at G17, I play F18 and the two white stones are dead. If white replies at F18 after the cut, it leads to either a ladder favoring black or another variation that I cannot read fully but doesn't seem that bad.
(I've tried to think without putting stones on a board)

Hey guys

I just finished a correspondance with a very frustrating loss for me. Can you guys please give me some pointers and what to look out for?

I would say that you lost your game at the opening.

• Try not to be locked in
• Pay attention to cutting points

More specifically,

that move isn't really bad but I would prefer to play at P6 to get out to the center.

should be at Q5 (connect). Don't give your opponent a ponnuki facing the center without reason.

now you see that the position is horrible for White. White lives in gote, is completely locked in and Black has a thick shape facing the center. I guess that an AI would give Black 99% winrate now.

should be at N17. You are leaving a serious weakness.

now you see that again you live in gote and are completely surrounded by a thick shape. This is almost game over.

going out of a ladder that doesn't work?

This is a bizarre game. It combines the worst of beginner mistakes, like the wasted atari at 44, with the brightest of AI ideas, like the double ladder at 70. The first looks like hastily played, the second like intensively researched.

Probably this major inconsistency is typical of a correspondence game. I'm not very familiar with that format so I refrain from further comments.

I would call 98 the losing move. If played elsewhere (exercise) I'd call the game playable.

Knotwilg wrote:It combines the worst of beginner mistakes, like the wasted atari at 44

Here's a whole board go problem for Triton, to help understand why 44 is so bad.

White to play, what is the best move, or even a good move? Propose several choices.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . , . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Knotwilg wrote: with the brightest of AI ideas, like the double ladder at 70.

Black helped make white's moves look clever, if he just kept laddering the first ladder he would capture it.

Uberdude wrote:White to play, what is the best move, or even a good move? Propose several choices.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . X . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . W . . , . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . W W . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X . X . X W . . , . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W W . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Some thoughts.

Thanks a lot to you guys for your advice.

Uberdude wrote:

Knotwilg wrote:It combines the worst of beginner mistakes, like the wasted atari at 44

Here's a whole board go problem for Triton, to help understand why 44 is so bad.

White to play, what is the best move, or even a good move? Propose several choices.

$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . , . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . X . X . X . . . , . . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Knotwilg wrote: with the brightest of AI ideas, like the double ladder at 70.

Black helped make white's moves look clever, if he just kept laddering the first ladder he would capture it.

I am not sure. Maybe an extension for the open side of the upper left corner? An invasion somewhere around K4?

There are several good moves, but O19 is certainly not a good move, and the board position at move 46 of your game is the same as if you played O19 in Uberdude's question. The conclusion is that in the game, you shouldn't have made the exchange and you should have played directly instead.