Life In 19x19

yes i think thats true, active trumps strength maybe. but if you promote the strong who play less vs the weaker who play more, at some point it will be so active the weaker demotes no matter how much he plays. sure gamma is too crowded, i hope i can make a delta layer again next month to make it better again, but i can say that the league this month has already had a total of 395 games in comparison to last month where we had a bit over 500 games.

you also need to know that about half of the new players in the league cant manage to even hold the minimum number of games to stay in the league, so i need a bit bigger classes to even out those players so the active players can get some games in.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's very well run at the moment, and am enjoying it lots - the spread of ability in the division is very pleasant, and makes for an excellent learning environment. Considering the purpose is to be a study league, I think having the top league as the "most studious" has a lot of merit

hopefully with the coming ASR school there will be even more "studious" ppl

stalkor wrote:you also need to know that about half of the new players in the league cant manage to even hold the minimum number of games to stay in the league, so i need a bit bigger classes to even out those players so the active players can get some games in.

Do you? Even if one of the smaller leagues (14 players) had half its players not play a single game, the other half can still get 18 games in against each other. Considering only 7 out of 151 players have reached this point (ok, it's only 12 days in), and usagi said one of the original goals was the hope that everyone would play all their games if possible, I don't see any issues arising with leagues of a maximum of say, 12 to 16 players. I think I'd rather have more tiers than more players in each division - I've never had a problem getting games.

topazg wrote:

stalkor wrote:you also need to know that about half of the new players in the league cant manage to even hold the minimum number of games to stay in the league, so i need a bit bigger classes to even out those players so the active players can get some games in.

Do you? Even if one of the smaller leagues (14 players) had half its players not play a single game, the other half can still get 18 games in against each other. Considering only 7 out of 151 players have reached this point (ok, it's only 12 days in), and usagi said one of the original goals was the hope that everyone would play all their games if possible, I don't see any issues arising with leagues of a maximum of say, 12 to 16 players. I think I'd rather have more tiers than more players in each division - I've never had a problem getting games.

It's an interesting issue. Personally, it seems difficult for me to find the time to play enough games to advance to the next league when there are so many players who can play twice the number of games I have time to play. I'm trying to play more this month, but with only two advancing upwards, it's hard to keep up with the most active players.

On the other hand, with larger leagues there will always be stronger players in the lower leagues, who get left behind by the active players who play 30+ games to their 10-15, so there will always be a mix of ranks in all leagues.

Like everyone seems to be stating, it all depends on the goals of the league ... do you want the strongest up top, or the ones with the best participation? There are advantages to both ...

topazg wrote:

stalkor wrote:you also need to know that about half of the new players in the league cant manage to even hold the minimum number of games to stay in the league, so i need a bit bigger classes to even out those players so the active players can get some games in.

Do you? Even if one of the smaller leagues (14 players) had half its players not play a single game, the other half can still get 18 games in against each other. Considering only 7 out of 151 players have reached this point (ok, it's only 12 days in), and usagi said one of the original goals was the hope that everyone would play all their games if possible, I don't see any issues arising with leagues of a maximum of say, 12 to 16 players. I think I'd rather have more tiers than more players in each division - I've never had a problem getting games.

well i had a problem with making this months league, i couldnt let delta layer exist because 4 delta classes would total about 6 players each and thats way too little. the other problem is i had about 30 new entrants since the new month began, had i known this i wouldve let delta layer exist and it would now more or less be filled. maybe it was a mistake, maybe it wasnt, too late to change it anyway.

next month will have delta layer again and gamma will go back to 14 players per class:)

yes

stalkor wrote:well i had a problem with making this months league, i couldnt let delta layer exist because 4 delta classes would total about 6 players each and thats way too little.

There are alternatives. At the time I joined, there were 140 players, across 15 divisions, that's 9 in each (just over), which I think is just about ok. I would choose between 8 and 16 I think, but that's personal preference

well even with 14 players getting 3 games each i still get a lot of complaints that players cant find an opponent.

I just signed up and was assigned to Gamma IV. Anyone else joining for the next month?

august league is closed for new players, you can sign up for september now and join the other 170 players this league now has:)

stalkor wrote:well even with 14 players getting 3 games each i still get a lot of complaints that players cant find an opponent.

I can't find an opponent in Gamma III. :p

Due to the level to which participation affects your score in the current system, I have a strong feeling you should make Alpha 12 players, Beta 14. Gamma 16 and Delta 21. Something like that. Look at Gamma III. Michael77 has 23 straight losses and is in position 9 of 32. I realize to a certain extent that this is actually desirable; I think what I am trying to say is, to reflect that desirability in other ways as well. If people are complaining about not being able to find a game it should be mathematically possible to determine dropout rates and calculate room sizes properly.

I haven't seen how this system responds over time but it seems like active players would have filtered up to alpha by now. Look at players such as myself and chemboy-- how is Alpha not filled with people like us two by now? Maybe people give up at the top. I don't know. Part of the reason i'm here now is to see what happens when you reach the top. Right now I find it difficult not to think participation is being rewarded in the wrong ways. But I'm willing to try it.

I'll be very happy once I'm in Beta with the recently promoted highly active players.

I'm getting a little sick of people who log out when I ask them for a game. There's three people like that right now. Such people don't have what it takes and if they're going to come to a place like the ASR league, at least what I feel it is now, I feel they need to be told that. People joining this league and not playing games makes me sick. Why did they join the league? To not play?

stalkor wrote:august league is closed for new players, you can sign up for september now and join the other 170 players this league now has:)

Request.

Could you please modify the website so that it more accurately reflects who will promote and demote?

What I mean is, say alpha currently has someone with 0/2. They're marked red. But they'd normally be dropped next month, so, can one of the beta rooms have an extra green spot?

Also take Gamma III for example (the room i'm in). Room sizes are 14. So why isn't everyone under position 14 marked red? You see what I mean?

Right now it looks like position 3 and 4 in every Gamma room will be promoted to Beta due to inactive players in Alpha and Beta...

Hmm I just took a look at beta II. A guy with 21 straight losses is ranked ahead of a guy with 9 straight wins.

Maybe it is time to cut the activity reward in half.

it's 2 to 1, but you have 172 players in the league..... thats a lot of people... surely .. out of those, there are enough players to fill the top 2 or 3 rooms with STRONG players where "activity" is assumed. So cut the activity reward. I don't know, I know I just joined but like this, how will it be competitive at the top?

usagi wrote:

stalkor wrote:august league is closed for new players, you can sign up for september now and join the other 170 players this league now has:)

Request.

Could you please modify the website so that it more accurately reflects who will promote and demote?

What I mean is, say alpha currently has someone with 0/2. They're marked red. But they'd normally be dropped next month, so, can one of the beta rooms have an extra green spot?

Also take Gamma III for example (the room i'm in). Room sizes are 14. So why isn't everyone under position 14 marked red? You see what I mean?

Right now it looks like position 3 and 4 in every Gamma room will be promoted to Beta due to inactive players in Alpha and Beta...

Hmm I just took a look at beta II. A guy with 21 straight losses is ranked ahead of a guy with 9 straight wins.

Maybe it is time to cut the activity reward in half.

it's 2 to 1, but you have 172 players in the league..... thats a lot of people... surely .. out of those, there are enough players to fill the top 2 or 3 rooms with STRONG players where "activity" is assumed. So cut the activity reward. I don't know, I know I just joined but like this, how will it be competitive at the top?

at the moment the promotions/demotions are part of a script that makes no difference but just calculates who is highest and lowest. also ppl with 0 points are always marked red. if ppl have the same score they will count for the same spot. these are small bugs that are (according to the programmer) a bit hard to fix easily. (note: i do not have access to the database or scripts used for the league because he doesnt want others to use the scripts) also the programmer is working on his thesis for the coming year and has no time to make considerable changes to the league.

i know that gamma classes are way too big, that will be fixed next month and i will not make the same mistake again.

Also i would like to point out a misconception. STRONG players are NOT by definition "active" players. this was proven with the old system of the league where new players were added BY RANK in a class. the most active classes were the kyu classes.

on a more positive note!

October/November/December will have EXTRAORDINARY PRIZES!!!!

Read about it on the site http://www.stalkor.nl/ASR/