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Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=2102

Page 2 of 3

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:18 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:15 pm
by walleye
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hmm... I can't see why this is a good result for White.

Black can play something simple and get a pretty awesome position.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:16 am
by kokomi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I had not expected W11 to connect. I have expected either a tiger's mouth or a nobi. Anyway, this seems thick. So white can double hane out. So play a defensive move this time.
I would expect white to play somewhere else now, possible around Q6 area.

P.S: i feel my move this time is questionable, but no idea where to play better.


oh! Someone commented :D Nice to see it, even though i can not open the tag to see what he wrote.

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:18 am
by kokomi
btw, forgot to say
normal joseki
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


in the real game, the exchange of this two marked stones is apparently bad for black. If think in this way, play the normal joseki and then black moved the marked stone, and white response, then it is considered as bad move.


I only realised it after the move as usual :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O Q . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O Y O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



So let's consider the next move i just made. normal joseki is a shimari. but because of the exchange of the marked stones, the black group is in a situation that may short of liberties. so a shimari is questionable for me.

Anyone has any comments on move 12 i made? I can read it after the game finished :-)

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:29 am
by topazg
My comments for later :)

I'm not so sure :b12: is that big right now. You're safe, he's next to your thickness, and there are some huge areas left:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wanted this point.

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:55 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sorry for being so slow! Busy week. I'll be at a go tourney this weekend out of town, hopefully will have a computer nearby if you play another move.

The upper right ended in jeongseok so I haven't taken away any of Black's lead yet but we're getting there. It takes awhile and I have to engineer the first fight to go my way. His last move was uber slow, he should've played the star point at the bottom-middle- of the board.

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:11 pm
by kokomi
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm14 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Don't worry. I'm comfortable with slow moves :-)

Kosumi-tsuke is not possible, he has prefect nobi and then 3 space extension.
Cap? Then it's more like two black wall facing each other, and many place to go using the aji of Q14
Pincer? I don't want him to turn the direction from bottom to right.

What i'm thinking now: Should I play S16? Is it a sente? He won't play S16 to reduce the activity of Q14. It does not seem to be that urgent.

I think he will play Q2 next move, but i have not think about how to respond yet :lol:

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:54 pm
by k1ndofblue
I think taking the star point was still the best move here

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:58 pm
by walleye
kokomi wrote:
Cap? Then it's more like two black wall facing each other, and many place to go using the aji of Q14


Black makes a classic mistake there. Going for tiny territory when he has so many high stones.
He should've made thinkness facing the center instead. Safe, solid, and works well with his other stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm14 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 2 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O 4 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't see anything wrong with this.

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:02 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm14 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black should have attacked me with a pincer, like the empty star point on the bottom would have been well placed. However these kinds of mistakes are just going to give me a little more breathing room, I still haven't been able to plan how I'm going to engineer the first fight, but it's coming.

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:16 am
by k1ndofblue
I think the open star point is still a good move for black.

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:50 am
by kokomi
trigger a move?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . 1 . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have a stone on tengen, so it's ok if he will have a wall outside.

I'm actually wondering what if he did not jump but plays k3 or l3 or say H4??

I somehow feel he will reject my trigger. :)

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:53 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In the future kokomi please don't play for me :)

A trick move to see what Black does.

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:31 pm
by Bill Spight
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Gee, when I was kokomi's strength that's where I would probably play. After all, I want outside influence. ;)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And then I would have played thus, not realizing the danger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 9 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 7 O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But in this case the refutation at :w19: may not work out so well. ;)

Re: Yithril vs. Kokomi 7 stone handicap game

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:13 am
by Marcus
Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 9 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 7 O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But in this case the refutation at :w19: may not work out so well. ;)


What about the following :w19: continuation?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 19x19 diagram
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 7 O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Isn't this also slightly dangerous for Black?
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