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25. mic (9k) vs. POGO (10k)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=211

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Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:49 am
by topazg
schultz wrote:So what is the better play in this situation, then? This is some thing I don't feel bad about playing, though my opening is very weak (some thing I've been trying to work on--and thus the question ;)).


Loose rule of thumb is jump the number of stones in your wall + 1. So from 1 stone, a two point jump, 2 stones, a 3 point jump etc. The rule is designed primarily IIRC for 3rd line plays, but it's a useful guideline.

Frankly, I doubt the over concentration in shape is going to make any difference to a game at this level anyway :P

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:04 am
by Numsgil
schultz wrote:Looking forward to following this game. Thanks to both of you for participating. :)

Dusk Eagle wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 3 . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w4: would be overconcentrated. With a two stone wall, white must go one space farther.

In general, this kick - whether from a 3-4 or 4-4 - is bad unless white is already being pincered here.

Anyway, I'll unhide this comment at some point in the future so mic can learn from it.

So what is the better play in this situation, then? This is some thing I don't feel bad about playing, though my opening is very weak (some thing I've been trying to work on--and thus the question ;)).


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I believe this odd looking joseki is the preferred reaction. At least locally. My guess is that in a professional game you wouldn't see this joseki emerge just yet when there's still an open corner, though. Black has good influence on the right and has cramped white's star stone on the left, so I think black comes out ahead.

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:16 am
by mic
Hi everybody,

just wanted to mention that I can now really understand wms's comment about being paranoid and curious what all the people post :)

- Mic

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:10 pm
by Chew Terr
mic wrote:just wanted to mention that I can now really understand wms's comment about being paranoid and curious what all the people post :)
- Mic


Heh, I feel your pain =)

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:31 pm
by POGO
sorry for the long reply (im on my psp) im currently on the road til tomarrow so i should be able to post my move then.

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:22 pm
by POGO
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , W . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:16 pm
by mic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O B . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is what I expect. A stone at a would probably work better now. I'm curious, where White would play afterwards: b, c or d (R5 is still weak).

I think it's quite important that I gain sente again...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 X . . 5 . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O 1 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . b . . . . . , . . . . . c . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:43 am
by Aphelion
not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<


If white reexamined the merits of just these two statements after the game, he'd probably gain 2 stones.

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:45 am
by Hummingbird Cyborg
POGO wrote:
not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<

I don't like this move much.

White isn't building a significant moyo such that he gains more than black by strengthening black in a situation like this.

In fact, black's top is going to look much better than it did before.

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:46 am
by fwiffo
Aphelion wrote:
not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<


If white reexamined the merits of just these two statements after the game, he'd probably gain 2 stones.

Nothing wrong with taking the bus. For several months, that's how I got to go club.

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:41 am
by Aphelion
fwiffo wrote:
Aphelion wrote:
not much thought here, this is my normal responce.

that and im on a bus >.<


If white reexamined the merits of just these two statements after the game, he'd probably gain 2 stones.

Nothing wrong with taking the bus. For several months, that's how I got to go club.


Should clarify, I meant these two statements:

1. not much thought here,

2.this is my normal responce.

Nothing wrong with taking the bus obviously :)

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:41 pm
by POGO
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He will most likley want this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


of he does it this way ill will probably try for a more glodal scale.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


sorry bout the slow responces i just got a new labtop as my old one crashed one me

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:57 am
by mic
Hi Pogo,

no Problem -- we are not in a hurry :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:48 am
by POGO
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Decided that my original move might have been to far.

here is what i think might happen locally

Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25

Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:27 am
by mic
Hello,

I have to think about this move, will answer soon.

I think this is not a joseki move -- since I don't know so many josekis, I am not sure how to punish it. Should I just take the corner? White looks a bit huge.
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