Life In 19x19

topazg wrote:Ok, FWIW, this is the sort of thing I am guessing it's for:

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code

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It kind of helps simultaneously against the aji of all these, particularly a-c, and White could choose to play any of them. However, I wanted to ask because I'd never have played it, and it looks like none of our dan players would either. What is it exactly these pro players know ?

There is the separate point here that moves are only opinions, and even professionals disagree with one another. Black follows through a strong moyo plan here, but I don't believe it is the only move available.

Your aji reduction conclusion seems like a good one to me. Black neither plays the ubermoyo move at N14, nor the conservative move P5, both of which I thought (and still think) were bad. I didn't consider that black would go for a middle-ground move, it is hard to read and risky, and thereby unusual. I'm not sure there is anything incredibly special about the move, other than it being an unusual strategy in this situation, and therefore interesting to study the implications of. then again, maybe that counts as 'incredibly special'


I would be interested to see professional commentary of this game.

amnal wrote:

There is the separate point here that moves are only opinions, and even professionals disagree with one another. Black follows through a strong moyo plan here, but I don't believe it is the only move available.

Your aji reduction conclusion seems like a good one to me. Black neither plays the ubermoyo move at N14, nor the conservative move P5, both of which I thought (and still think) were bad. I didn't consider that black would go for a middle-ground move, it is hard to read and risky, and thereby unusual. I'm not sure there is anything incredibly special about the move, other than it being an unusual strategy in this situation, and therefore interesting to study the implications of. then again, maybe that counts as 'incredibly special'

I would be interested to see professional commentary of this game.

I agree with you, but not only would I not have thought of it, if a weaker player had played it I would probably have described at as a poor move that doesn't quite do enough of anything. The pro commentary with the game didn't even comment on it, the first comment was where it said "Gu Li separates strongly" or something to that effect. It makes me wonder what exactly the pro had read that he felt that was bigger than anything else on the board. It goes against the corners -> sides -> center philosophy, it feels like a very loose move, it doesn't really feel big compared to the top left corner.

Also, if Black has decided to go for moyo game, why is that bigger than the top left in his opinion, what aspects of the board make him feel that way? And why exactly this move to achieve it, not a move on the border of two moyos (like :21: ) which is the sort of thing I expect.

Bill's comment was the opponent's move is my own, which I agree with, but that's often when there's some urgency there. For example, the timing to do it because your opponent is just about to play there, and likewise, to me at least, the top left still felt bigger than reducing even from White's perspective.

What makes me interested is that not one of the players on here even suggested a move like that (although stable's was close), and that I find interesting in itself.

I may do something along these lines for my next pop-quiz guessing thread

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm19
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm19
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