80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by gaius »

Aphelion, I'm not sure. Given that it's a cross-fuseki anyway, I see no problem in playing solid, territorial moves. On the other hand, you have a point that black also has two 4-4 stones that aim at big development, which might make the kosumi a bit too slow. In any case, I personally wouldn't really want to tenuki, because your scope for development get reduced a bit if white seals you in. But these differences are quite subtle and tough to judge for me too.
I remember Mingjiu advocating this response to the kick, is it better here than 'a'?

Yes, probably you're right :). It does look better, particularly because it kicks black's hoshi in the teeth.
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by antone »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . W , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sorry for the delay Hazushi, I recently found out I have to move at the end of the month, so my play will be a bit sparse for a while.

For some reason I feel like I'm behind already in this game. I'm not too worried by that because it often happens to me to get this feeling in the first few moves especially when playing white. Still it looks like it's going to be a hard game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . a , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . c b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

These were the moves I considered playing, and here's some reasoning:

My opponent's tenuki surprised me quite a bit, I'm pretty sure he should have played P16 so that's a prime candidate. The move he actually played is also surprising, it looks like he's trying to strike some sort of balance between helping his R12 stone, and attacking the corner. But it's still way overextended from his other stone and also a bit too far from the corner. At the same time he's pushing me towards the big point on the bottom. I guess he's not really aiming for the corner, and instead intends to attack next from the left, building towards his shimari and possibly giving up on this approach stone. If so, for me to play P16 now might be a mistake and I should just play O3 or N3.

However it just looks to me like P16 is really urgent (hello, contact play?), even if black can just defend easily it's still huge.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . 1 X O . . . |
$$ , . . . . W , O . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Just getting this point means that A is no longer such a weak point for my group, therefore an attack on the black right group becomes quite possible, especially with that enormous gap between the two stones. Additionally if black does not play :b1: then white can capture P17 whenever he wants, getting a _huge_ corner and later a strong attack on the top. So really, P16 attacks two groups at the same time, it feels hard to just let this chance go by.

Supposing black tenukies again, the only thing that really makes sense to me is an approach around O3. That would be tricky to handle, and black surely gets some sort of profit on the bottom, but since the R7 group/stone is now weakish, I hope white can come out of it ok. I would really like to play around O3 myself, but if I omit playing P16 first I can't really fight back seriously.

P.S. thanks to the observers for making comments, even though I can't read them. When I opted for an open game part of the reason was that I was not sure I could trust myself to not read the hidden comments. It's proven to be every way as hard as I thought it would be. Please at least let me know when I _can_ read them!
Last edited by antone on Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by Redundant »

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

This move.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by Hazushi »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . B X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Like I said before I will just extend out I have already thought of this and I know I will achieve enough territory else where. And like earlier it depends where my opponent plays now, I have already shown ideas earlier thats the best I can do at the moment since I am beyond busy at the moment but I still base my ideas on those roughly. In all it now depends on where my opponent plays.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by gromit »

antone wrote:I'll hide comments too to save on space.

Personally I hate hide tags, so I'm more likely to follow the game if at least the players' comments are open.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by yithril »

This result is pretty excellent for White.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White can invade anywhere in here and play severely because he has that ponnuki going on. Black shouldn't allow White to make that shape so...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . B , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think extending is a lot better. You could jump too if you want to play lightly but I don't want White to get such a nice shape here.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by Redundant »

I'm gonna be presumptuous and add that the players shouldn't read yithril's hidden post before mine. It gives recommendations for future moves.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by antone »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm very sorry for dissapearing like that. I've been busy with moving, and it's still not completely over, so I might be slow for a few more moves, but I'll be always be back sooner or later.

I don't have time right now for elaborate reasoning, maybe later or tomorrow.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by Hazushi »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I forgot my original plans and looking back through my planys it seems like there is something missing.
So, moving on I will have to see what I can do with what I now have on the board.
I saw this move out the corner of my eye nearly. I was looking to play a line closer to the wall when I saw this. I do not know wether it is a good move or bad one but I want to try it out. Have no real ideas for it mostly I want to see where my opponent plays. Thats all I got hopefully I get a decent idea next turn.
Only a child can ask questions that the wise can not answer.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by antone »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, was kind of hoping he would reinforce that group with something like Q10 in gote, unfortunately he has chosen a way that is likely to end with his sente (but gives me a lot of territory and a rock solid group in exchange, so it's fine I think). Also by choosing this violent way of settling, he will gain a lot of strength but only locally, the huge gap is still there and he still needs to play around Q10 to be really safe.
I briefly considered replying at R5, but I don't think it would be a good idea, I also considered Q13 to gain sente, but I can't bring myself to just give up the corner so easily (also he might just tenuki anyway).

Now I'm not really happy with my last move, I'm sure there was something better and I feel like I lost a chance.

I promised some reasoning yesterday, here it is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , C . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . d . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . a b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As you can see I was pretty undecided!

Clear points of interest are the lower right corner (because a black play at A is kind of a double kakari and works great with his shimari on the other side) and the big gap marked with circles (which means that black must be careful of white getting too strong there, but also makes the two stones on the side quite light)

My local options in the corner are mainly A, B, and C. If C was actually sente it would for sure be the best move, but I don't really think c is very sente, because black can easily treat R7 lightly, approach on or around B anyway, forcing white to defend the corner, and then defend at Q10. After this if white attacks the approach stone on the left, B can sacrifice it and build towards his shimari.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . 8 . 7 . 9 . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 6 . 5 . 2 . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

something like this is not bad for B I think.

If we exclude C, that leaves A and B, it's mostly the same, the main difference is that with A black can still invade at the 3-3 and live easily, with B it's Ko I think. But anyway black can't do it now because that would really hurt his stones on the right.

So probably A is better because it's larger and extends more in the direction black should have wanted to play, therefore reducing the value of the shimari.

Discounting the bottom right corner, there are other points I'd like to play. D is kind of similar to A, but favours the side and reducing black prospects more than building territory in the corner. Looks kind of vague and wishy washy, but on the other hand using 4-4 for territory is supposed to be wrong.

E is also a very big point for the same reasons as A (black approaches and builds towards his shimari). but I guess A is bigger because it's more severe being a double kakari and all.

Last choice is f, since I am really undecided, this looks like a good time for a probe. I don't really understand black's general plan and what he wants. As I said before I think R7 was a move in the wrong direction and does not make a lot of sense to me, maybe the probe would help shed some light on the matter. But then I can still probe whenever I want to. And maybe it won't be necessary at all, especially since playing A already reduces the potential on the bottom

So A it is!
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by Hazushi »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


All my ideas, look away not many words for these just mostly "quick" variations.

V.1
Move 7 can be at R-10 then I dont know what I would do.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 4 B 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . 6 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


V.2
Moves 7-9 are later possibilities but not sure they would happen that was just quick thoughts for those 3 moves, like 8 could be at Q-8 instead.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 6 B 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

V.3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . B 1 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

V.4
Move 3 can be at R-10 or Q-9, at R-10 I probably would extend out to P-11 and as for Q-9 I am not so sure what I would do.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 1 O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Only a child can ask questions that the wise can not answer.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by antone »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . W O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looks like the only move to me.
I can't cut yet, but I'm building very good (4th line!) territory in the corner, so I can't complain much.
I was expecting something slightly different from black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Corner
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O 2 . . O . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Rotated diagram, because I'm lazy and use the template zenith kindly posted here. Anyway, it's very similar, but more certain to end in sente for black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Corner
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . b O . . . O . .
$$ | . a X O 2 . . . .
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

This way white is threatening A, which kind of takes away black's new base, so it's quite sente for me. If black plays A I might well ignore it, because it looks like (very large) endgame. Black clearly cannot play B immediately
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by Hazushi »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X B . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


*Sigh* Having open comments takes the fun away from blindlessly diving head first into... things.
Anyways like I said this is my next move. Have no plans, no ideas really lets see where white plays now.
Only a child can ask questions that the wise can not answer.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by antone »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess people will say this is slow, but I like territory, and solid, and keeping my opponent weak(ish). The more I look at this the more it does not look like endgame, but rather as a race to get a solid base. I don't have time to post diagrams right now, maybe later or tomorrow.


BTW Hazushi, if you dislike the open comments thing we could switch it to closed.
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Re: 80. Antone(7k) vs Hazushi(7k) Open Malkovich

Post by Hazushi »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . B |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Open comments are cool.

I have just three rough ideas currently.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . B |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . B |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . 4 . . 3 . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . B |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 3 . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Only a child can ask questions that the wise can not answer.
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