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Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:42 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Both players must agree to play a diagonal opening.
Therefore, if it is inferior for one player (and the players are halfway decent), it will never get played.
Since someone will eventually win the game after the diagonal opening, the diagonal opening must have been inferior for the other player.
Therefore, that player should not have played the diagonal opening.
So, clearly, diagonal openings are inferior and should only be played if you are hoping to trick your opponent.
Edit:
Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:44 pm
by illluck
I am surprised by the number of people who think diagonal openings are bad for black - I have always considered (and still believe) that diagonal openings favour black slightly.
Edit: p.s. I'd be very surprised if the difference between parallel and diagonal openings is more than 2 points :p
Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:06 pm
by Jedo
Don't let this become 4chan
Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:35 pm
by Loons
My two cents:
I have a vague feeling that if black is playing two developmental stones, they should probably be orthogonal (same for white, I guess). So if you play two 4-4s, they should probably be orthogonal (Developing your home-side is likely to benefit both).
But if you are playing a 4-4 (wants the adjacent stars) and a 3-3 (doesn't really want the adjacent stars) I don't think they should necessarily be orthogonal. Not so ?
Anyway, I often play the following situation as white (and am happy to as black):
$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If you're not in the mood to play against Chinese or Kobayashi (and especially if you're in the mood to taisha), this creates an interesting game too, which can be diagonal if eg. black takes the open corner.
Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:08 am
by entropi
I hate both diagonal and parallel openings. Any other kind of openings like great wall, or handicap openings, etc, I hate even more. I am not in favour of any kind of opening. I wish I could start my games directly with midgame.
Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:24 am
by Gresil
At least you can start a fight at move 2. Me, I love all openings and I wish the game was just opening from beginning to end.
Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:47 am
by palapiku
Gresil wrote:At least you can start a fight at move 2. Me, I love all openings and I wish the game was just opening from beginning to end.
Just stop the game at move 20 and ask a pro who's ahead; that person wins.
Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:52 pm
by tapir
illluck wrote:I'm pretty sure that usagi is joking :p
Nowadays, a joke has to be short to be understood.
Re: Arguments for or against diagonal openings
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:46 pm
by palapiku
tapir wrote:illluck wrote:I'm pretty sure that usagi is joking :p
Nowadays, a joke has to be short to be understood.
What?