Life In 19x19

kirkmc wrote:I disagree with showing the wrong solutions first, for the reason I explained above. I don't know any other books that give the wrong solutions first, and I've read a lot of go books.

I've just finished reading Kageyama for the first time (the first ever Go book I've bought, as I only learned the game last summer and money is very tight at the moment), and that definitely has the wrong moves first in giving solutions to problems.

robinz wrote:

kirkmc wrote:I disagree with showing the wrong solutions first, for the reason I explained above. I don't know any other books that give the wrong solutions first, and I've read a lot of go books.

I've just finished reading Kageyama for the first time (the first ever Go book I've bought, as I only learned the game last summer and money is very tight at the moment), and that definitely has the wrong moves first in giving solutions to problems.

And, for what it's worth, I actually rather like seeing the wrong solutions first. It actually feels intuitive to me. If I see the right solutions first, I tend to gloss over the wrong ones in a sort of "what's the point, I already know the answer" way. I prefer the "Can't wait to see what the right answer" suspense as I go through wrong variations

Generally I prefer answers first in tsumego books/sections, and answers last in non-tsumego books/sections. What I abhor in either are answers in the middle.

Kim Sung-Rae usually likes to print incorrect/non-final answers first, then correct/final answers last. As a holder in a Master's of Education and past lecturer at Myongji University, Kim Sung Rae believes in a wholistic and non-brute memorizing approach to learning. His goal is to have the readers understand the meanings behind the moves so that they can play play them properly in their own games and punish them properly when opponents veer away.

Master of Haengma also shows wrong moves first which I prefer. Especially when the wrong move is the one you'd like to play first, it's nice to see the refutation and then the 'correct' move and why. I think the purpose is to see our mistake and correct it. It seems backward to show here's the right moves and then the mistakes you can make.

Is there any reason to hide the results of the poll? I think it would be interesting to see who thought books were great or not. I don't think public poll here would put people off from voting.

oren wrote:Is there any reason to hide the results of the poll? I think it would be interesting to see who thought books were great or not. I don't think public poll here would put people off from voting.

yea. he should have added. "i dont know this book"

Magicwand wrote:yea. he should have added. "i dont know this book"

As long as we can change that vote later. I will be getting it sooner or later.

Thanks, Jordus, for the starting the first one!

The way the poll works, you cant display the results up front if the person hasn't voted, however the person can view the results without voting by clicking "view results" underneath the submit button.

I read the first few chapters and found it very very informative.

The problems in that book are exactly of that kind I was loking for a while ago. Unfortunately there are too few problems. I would appreciate if someone could suggest a problem book (or web page or any other kind of resource) with similar problems. I mean problems like how to cut opponents jump, etc.

As far as I know, the japanese corresponding concept is "suji", but I am not sure if it is exactly the same thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


And about the book, one thing I appreciated the most is that he gives clear definitions.

Other articles I read before that were describing haengma as some kind of magical tool, like any kind of sabaki, escaping, cutting, connecting, etc. Consequently the concept was becoming more and more mysterious and did not mean anything. Well, if something means everything, then it means nothing.

This book defines it as movements towards the center and clearly excludes side extensions and any kind of life&death situations. It might be a too restrictive definition for some players but it is something extremely useful for those who have not yet understood the concept.

Jordus wrote:The way the poll works, you cant display the results up front if the person hasn't voted, however the person can view the results without voting by clicking "view results" underneath the submit button.

I meant hide who votes what. I can view results, but it's only numbers. I've seen other polls here that allow seeing what people voted for.

oren wrote: I can view results, but it's only numbers. I've seen other polls here that allow seeing what people voted for.

I haven't seen this, but I agree that it would be better.

kirkmc wrote:I disagree with showing the wrong solutions first, for the reason I explained above. I don't know any other books that give the wrong solutions first, and I've read a lot of go books.

Cho Hun-hyeon's books Lectures on Go Techniques and Lectures on the Opening give the wrong solution (actually multiple wrong solutions) first. I like this method, as usually one of the main points of the correct solution is that it avoids the flaws of the wrong solutions.

I liked This Is Haengma a great deal, although perhaps it went down too easily - I feel like I could get more out of it with more work on my part.

Haengma is the local to global relation and development of all stones.

On the local scale, this amounts to making good and efficient connections in the (see Kageyama) struggle to get ahead, and this is where most books end their explanation. However, the global scale and the dynamic process must not be overlooked.

Sensei's Library has succesfully lost most of the meaning on the topic.

Here are some useful rec.games.go threads (move up to the first message in either thread before starting to read):

Haengma / The Fifth

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 64b1aa30c1

Haengma / The Fourth

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 1d5476a3f5

Also see my related book reviews:

http://www.gobooks.info/jasiek/master-of-haengma.html
http://www.gobooks.info/jasiek/haengma-dictionary.html

dfan wrote:Cho Hun-hyeon's ... Lectures on the Opening give the wrong solution (actually multiple wrong solutions) first.

Not in my copy.

This is haengma is a quite an easy read, but it lays an important foundation and I believe it should be considered in the broader context together with his other works.

For example, his book Inspiration of Pro also deals with haengma (among other things) but at a higher level that should provide more than enough challenge for those who consider This is haengma to be too easy.

All in all, it is an excellent book that can be read at almost any level and still be useful.