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Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:31 pm
by daniel_the_smith
balmung wrote: $$B1cm4 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B1cm4 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0This is what black wants. The bottom influence is to much to good to be true. White gets some decent compensation on the right, but I gain alot from this joseki.
Too good to be true? ...
There may be influence on the bottom but all black's stones are low, so it is small.
If we're having fantasies about this position, this one seems better:
$$B1cm4 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B1cm4 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0But it's still pretty hard to say black is ahead in this position...
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:45 pm
by Aphelion
$$Wcm6 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm6 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:08 pm
by Loons
I like these options as white (position is even)
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc(6 and 8 are expected)
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:27 pm
by balmung
$$Wcm6 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm6 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Starting to notice different ideas
$$B1cm4 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B1cm4 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0c and b seem to be valid moves, and a is an okay move. I personally after thinking about this for awhile think c is by far the best move. It attacks his 3-4 corner stone causing a immediate joseki response, and I like the joseki options. It also splits his two white stones on the left. I always second guess my original thought which was b, and I think the bottom is valuable, but I doubt I can obtain it, and I think the influence I create down there is not beneficial, maybe I was wrong in thinking that b was the iron clad move. I noticed a immediately after I second guessed my self, and I liked the idea, but I think C is a much more efficient way
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:56 pm
by Aphelion
$$Wcm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1Went with the tiger's mouth instead of the solid connection because I expect the 1-2 exchange eventually, meaning that the weaker connection isn't much of a problem. Also, I seem to remember with the large shimari there is a sequence to invade the corner starting from 'a'. (Don't remember how it goes, trying to read it right now).
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:16 am
by daniel_the_smith
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:14 am
by balmung
$$Wcm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Plans have changed. If I attack the corner now my opponent gets sente and can stengthen this groups major weakness He jumped one to far
$$B1cm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B1cm8 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0I feel this is the option he will choose. It does destroy his points, but I don't get to split his stones like me move was aiming to.
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:23 am
by topazg
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:43 am
by Aphelion
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:56 am
by Loons
Some attempt at explaining things. Anyone can look.
Here's an example.
$$Wcm1 Modern Style
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Modern Style can tenuki. Followup invasion is not urgent.
$$Wcm1 Older joseki
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Older josekiWhite generally must add
. The followup invasion is urgent. So,
was likely sente because of white's thinner (ie longer) extension.
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:16 am
by EdLee
Not for either player until specified, possibly much later.
balmung wrote: $$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BThis is what black wants. The bottom influence is to much to good to be true.
Wrong. All the bottom B stones are on the 3rd line, so B has very little influence there.
For the same reason, B does not want to spend yet another 3rd line move on the bottom;
would be much bigger at (a) instead.
balmung wrote: White gets some decent compensation on the right, but I gain alot from this joseki.
Wrong. Up to
, everything is joseki, and neither side has much advantage; the result is equal.
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:45 am
by EdLee
Not for either player.
seems premature (or jealous?); probably much bigger at (a) or (b) instead:
$$Bm13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm13W can simply block with
?
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BCompare:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:03 am
by EdLee
Not for either player.
balmung wrote: $$Bm13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm13Plans have changed. If I attack the corner now...
My understanding is to be able to attack a group, said group must be weak to begin with,
and since neither
nor
is weak, B cannot attack either W corner --
approach , yes;
attack , no.
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:01 am
by Aphelion
$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:10 am
by daniel_the_smith
can tenuki. Followup invasion is not urgent.
was likely sente because of white's thinner (ie longer) extension.
would be much bigger at (a) instead.
, everything is joseki, and neither side has much advantage; the result is equal.
seems premature (or jealous?); probably much bigger at (a) or (b) instead:
?
nor 
is weak, B cannot attack either W corner -- approach, yes; attack, no.