Life In 19x19

Perception wrote:If anyone cares I learned this variation from one of the games in Kamakura (which I got as a gift for Christmas)

Nice, so did I.

I can't let him turn and seal me in so I've got to jump ahead. I expect black to tenuki, either to make a shimari in the lower right or to shoulder hit my 3-3 in the lower left.

If he makes the shimari I'll extend to below the bottom star point.

If he plays the shoulder hit here's what I expect:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 3 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something like that anyway. I think black would tenuki instead of responding directly to 8 because I can't see any local response that's really any good and to play at 8 instead of 7 allowing white to cut wouldn't be any good either.

With the top bottom and right sides all being so wide open still I'd feel okay with this since I would have around 30 solid points including komi.

Nothing to say about the game for now, but since no one told you yet, your sgf comments are nice. I for one like to have the context of the game as a side effect.

So, I decided to play on the bottom. I am not 100% confident it is the correct decision, but I don't think the resulting position from a possible pincer (see my diagrams) is unplayable. We shall see!
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Perception]PB[mw42]
;B[pd]
;W[dc]
;B[qo]
;W[cq]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[ec]
;W[eb]
;B[fc]
;W[cb]
;B[df]
;W[cg]C[If black plays on the bottom...]
;B[fq]LB[pf:C][qf:D][do:A][iq:B]C[then A is normal, but I wonder if in this case a pincer around B is possible. It is not easy for black to attack the snug 3-3 stone, so reverting to the shoulder hit joseki is maybe the best black can do.

I am also considering C and D. D works to enclose black's corner and C develops the framework on either side.

I'll decide whether I play on the bottom or at C or D while I make my next post. ]
(;W[do]
;B[iq]
;W[pq]
;B[op]
;W[oq]
;B[np]
;W[mq]
;B[mp]
;W[lq]
;B[qj]C[If the game goes like this, I like this development for black.])
(;W[iq]
;B[dp]
;W[cp]
;B[do]
;W[cn]
;B[fo]C[Perhaps this move is too slow.]
;W[lq]C[Now this doesn't look horrible, but now I think black should enclose the corner.]
;B[pq]C[However, white already has a position on the open side of the shimari, and I don't think it is too easy to attack white's two-space extension.

I'd say already white has about 30 points of secure territory and black only has about 15. So, I feel a bit behind even with all my influence.]))[/sgf-full]

I'm glad you like it. It's a lot easier then creating a ton of diagrams! It also helps to organize my thoughts when I'm thinking about moves. During games, I tend to play a lot on instinct and not think too much on the positions. That is the exact opposite of what I am doing here. Already I can see the game is different from how I usually play.

I've never seen this approach to the 3-3 before. I don't see any severe follow ups though so I'm thinking I'll tenuki.

A few possibilities:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . 0 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . 6 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 3 5 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 4 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the sequence above, it would be better for black to have be one space to the left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 0 4 5 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 7 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

11 at a in the above diagram.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 7 3 4 0 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 8 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't see any results that are really bad for me after I tenuki and pushing up at 16 is an important move. He can't keep me low and I can aim at reducing or invading the top much more effectively now. It helps to reduce some of black's influence and possibly allow me to build a framework on the left depending on how black plays in the lower left.

Like I said earlier I don't expect black to respond to this move because I don't see a good response at this time so it's probably best for black to see how the game develops before responding.

I like J16 or K16 for black on this board. Makes that top left group back into an asset, rather than liability. White growing a modest but strong moyo on the left isn't really a problem, I think, and that'd reinforce f3's feeling of being a limiting move (though, making white low on the left as in percep's diagram 3 also seems nice, but gote). Hm. E13 also looks kinda tesuji, eh ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc 2 because a b exchange looks not wonderful for white
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

(He'll have to answer something submissively 'cause of shortage of liberties with black's push. I might be missing something, this is not a joseki I'm strong with.) Huh, if 2, E12 looks almost sente for black. I always thought this joseki result was barely more than a weak group for black, but on inspection I think he might have something here. White tenuki does not look great either, again because of b. Maybe he has his own shortage of liberties tesuji against D15, but I think black can get a thick result and possibly sente here.

Seems like I really need to investigate this joseki.

Edit: On further reflection, it's more complicated than I thought. "Simple avalanche variation" my left foot.

Although I've got to say I didn't remember how nerve racking it is when you start getting hidden comments from observers. It makes me wonder if my thinking is messed up or if I'm missing something. This isn't that important but I don't want my opponent to see it until after the game, mindset is important (both your own and your opponent's).

I don't think that I can ignore this push, if I do my influence that I built up becomes less effective.
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Perception]PB[mw42]
;B[pd]
;W[dc]
;B[qo]
;W[cq]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[ec]
;W[eb]
;B[fc]
;W[cb]
;B[df]
;W[cg]
;B[fq]
;W[dg]
;B[eg]
;W[eh]
;B[fh]
(;W[fi]
;B[fg]
;W[di]LB[bf:B][cf:A][bg:C][bh:D][dh:E]C[If he plays like this, he has to fix otherwise black A, white B, C, D then black E will be double atari.])
(;W[ei]
(;B[fg]LB[bf:B][ci:A]C[If he plays this way, I should still fix. He gets sente, but there is some aji left with A and B, so I am not unhappy.]
;W[do]
;B[iq]C[So his left side gets a little larger, but I'm not too concerned with it.]
(;W[]
;B[ck]
;W[ek]
;B[ci]
;W[dl]
;B[bf]
;W[cf]
;B[bg]
;W[ch]
;B[bh]C[Perhaps something like this is possible (I'm not saying this is the only/best sequence... just a sequence).])
(;W[pq]
;B[op]
;W[oq]
;B[np]
;W[mq]
;B[mp]
;W[lq]
;B[qj]C[Then this reverts back to my original plan. We shall see.]))
(;B[ff]LB[gg:A]C[Just to mention, I think the solid connect is better than this hanging connection because the peep at A looks like it may be useful.])))[/sgf-full]

Black needs to extend to f13 or hane at f12. White atari at f13 would be big.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

5 is making a lot of potential territory. I also want to wait and see what black does next, see what he thinks is important at this point.

If black plays a double hane here at f12 I'll just extend and if black keeps pushing that's fine since I'll be getting fifth line territory.

Nothing to say. I should have just posted this double hane in one diagram and let him respond with his next move! I didn't really consider what to do if he cuts immediately. I think it's bad, but I'm not sure. I'll think about it if he does it.

Nothing new to say for this move, I can't let him atari and press me back down otherwise I gave him more influence for nothing.

Mmmkay, this is the variation I expected. Still nothing much to say. How am I doing?

seems white needs something on the right now. R10 maybe?

I was expecting black to push at least once before connecting. I can turn later at f11. I'm not entirely sure what I want to play right now so I'm just going to show a few ideas, I probably won't move until tomorrow.

First of all what are the 3 stones actually doing right now? They were supposed to keep white low and give black influence. White's position isn't so low anymore and the stones are the ones giving black most of his influence on the top. Those 3 stones are working inefficiently now. That's why I thought black would ignore d13, it may have been better to see if it's worth defending that area first.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O Y Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O Y Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Next some moves I'm considering:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . b . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . c , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a is looking to turn the left side into white territory or attack black's approach stone if black ignores a white play at a.

Invading the top around b looks good. Black has put a lot of effort into keeping his influence there from being diminished. Since it's wide open and it has an open skirt invasion is still easy.

An approach to the bottom left intends to loosely pressure black's approach stone in the bottom left.

It may turn out that I can play two or even all 3 of these moves. Black doesn't seem to mind losing sente based on the way he's been playing so far. Black will want to invade/reduce on the left side and reinforce the area at the top so keeping him from doing those things will take priority over approaching the bottom right corner.

I'm going to look into this more and make my move in a day or two. I'll post variations and some more analysis when I make my move.