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Re: Board Position from one of my games.

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:30 am
by flOvermind
gaius wrote:Maybe I'm too simple-minded, but this really looks like the only move to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ "Black to get the Best Result"
$$-----------------------------------------
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . X . . . X . . . X . . X 1 . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$| . . O X X . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$| . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------------------------------[/go]

Just visualise the difference with a white move there:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc "Black to get the Best Result"
$$-----------------------------------------
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . X . . . X . . . X . . X 1 . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$| . . O X X . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$| . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------------------------------[/go]

They say that one should aim at playing moves that do more than one thing (as long as they are not half-hearted attempts at accomplishing those goals). Well, this move:
  • Makes black's corner 100% resilient for future attack, thereby solidifying black's moyo somewhat
  • Takes away white's eyespace in the corner, thereby threatening a splitting attack at 'a'
  • Takes about 10 points of territory
  • Robs white of the chance to make about 10 points of territory while threatening black's base
Enough?

Bill Spight's move is also interesting (he's quite a bit stronger than me). Still, I (humbly) think my move looks better than his :). It puts more pressure on white, and, as a bonus, it simply takes more points in the corner.


I guess it boils down to the comparison:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$-----------------------------------------
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . X . . . X . . . X . . X 1 . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$| . . O X X . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$| . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$-----------------------------------------
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . X . . . X . . . X . . X 2 . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$| . . O X X . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$| . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------------------------------[/go]


Two questions for both diagrams:
- Can black tenuki?
- How stable is white?

I don't think white's group is any weaker in the first diagram than in the second, especially when black wants to tenuki.
But in the first diagram, I'm not sure if I really want to tenuki...

Not that I would have found Bill's move on my own, but now that I have seen it, I like it ;)

Re: Board Position from one of my games.

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:45 am
by Chew Terr
topazg wrote:
Phelan wrote:
I like a or b, but they're probably wrong.:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ "Black to get the Best Result"
$$-----------------------------------------
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . X . . . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . z . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . y , O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$| . . O X X . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$| . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------------------------------[/go]


They look perfectly ok to me. "a" I tend to avoid because it allows White to slide under, but it's a common way to develop outside influence, and seems like a good idea here - had you considered Q9 for the same thing? Outside influence is probably quite desirable for Black with respect to developing a big framework.


Also, if white slides under, black has either the cap at 'y' or the invasion at 'z'. As a result, this move actually looks pretty happy to me.

Re: Board Position from one of my games.

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:11 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ For some of the more obscure values of "best"
$$-----------------------------------------
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . X . . . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O O . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$| . . O X X . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$| . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------------------------------[/go]