whats the point of it all ?

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Mivo
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Re: whats the point of it all ?

Post by Mivo »

mic wrote:Small problem, at least for me: That's way easier written (or even read) than done :) Any tips?


Swim or sink. :)

Okay, that's a little harsh sounding, so let me elaborate: I feel that Go will inevitably teach you the value of learning vs. the value of winning (the journey vs. the destination), and in the process it teaches you patience. You'll probably either learn this (and then improve) or give up and walk away from it. Likely, there will be periods where you'll encounter both, to varying degrees. Breaks can be good, and they help to re-focus.

My experience is that I learn (and improve) better when I "yield" and stop trying (to win, to improve), a "letting go" type of feeling. It doesn't always work -- in fact, it frequently doesn't work and I have to get myself back on track --, but since we are not professionals, we can actually take a step back when frustration surfaces. I noticed with myself that when I get frustrated, my spontaneous (instinctive? trained?) reaction is to try even harder, which in the end makes me only even more frustrated. So a better approach is to "take it easy" and work a little on your perspective. Philosophically put, be like water. In a way, you get what you put into it: You put force into it, you get force back. You put enjoyment into it, you get enjoyment out of it.

It's mostly a spiritual-intellectual process, I think, but that probably depends on each person and what drives them, so what I write here is just from my perspective. It's quite likely totally different for others. Realistically, though, you know you won't ever be a professional player, so to you (and me) Go is chiefly a game, or a learning tool. It will not have to pay your rent or put the food on the table. So, does it matter if you'll be 1 dan in a year? Or two? Or ten? Or maybe never? If so, why?

Go "scales" really well with a person's strength. You can have enjoyable games at 25kyu, at 10kyu, at 1 dan, at 5 dan, etc, so why the hurry? The games may be different, but are they more or less fun? Have fun right now, and if you lose a game, try and appreciate the immense learning potential this loss just offered to you. Yes, that sounds easier than it is, especially if you're prone to thinking, "I'll never learn this!" or "Bah, I'm just too stupid/old/hopeless for this game!".

Getting from there to thinking "Woohoo, I lost! Yay! Awesome! I can learn from this!" is quite the way. Takes work and time. Be patient, be gentle with yourself. :) Every time you manage to shift your perspective a little and do fully realise that the value and beauty is the learning (the journey), it's a small success.
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Re: whats the point of it all ?

Post by gromit »

Mivo wrote:Go "scales" really well with a person's strength. You can have enjoyable games at 25kyu, at 10kyu, at 1 dan, at 5 dan, etc, so why the hurry? The games may be different, but are they more or less fun?

Personally I find it more fun as an SDK than I did as a DDK, because I have slightly more idea what's going on. I'd be interested to know whether this is normal, and also whether dan players find it more fun than they did as SDKs. Reading about how strong players think about the game certainly makes it sound more interesting than the sort of "what on earth should I be trying to do?" thinking that dominates my own play.
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Re: whats the point of it all ?

Post by Kirby »

Sometimes my dreams get ahead of reality. That is, I have goals and dreams of what things could be like, but my ability and/or actions have not yet caught up. This still happens to me, so I do not have a solution that I've followed completely.

But I would say that the thing that has worked best is to "just do it". That is, to just play go. Or just study go. Just do some sort of action. At first it's somewhat disappointing, because maybe your ability is not at the same level as where your dream or ambition is. But to some degree, I have started to enjoy the time I spend "just doing it".

I still have the same dreams and ambitions - I have not let go of them. But maybe I don't need to spend all of my time thinking about them. I can spend some time simply "doing"...

Not that this brings any "point" to anything. It's just an amusing way to spend your time, I suppose.
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Re: whats the point of it all ?

Post by Bantari »

mic wrote:
Bantari wrote:This is why the best way to enjoy the game is not to worry about such things but just play game after game and derive as much fun out of each game as you possibly can! yeah, baby, yeah!... ;)

Small problem, at least for me: That's way easier written (or even read) than done :) Any tips?
Michael


Of course it is easier written that done!
I could say: worthwhile things are often hard. But this would be like saying nothing.

Ultimately, you have fun with what you have fun with, its not a switch, and I don't think you can change it by logic. If rank chasing is what gives you pleasure, chase ranks, what can I say. But if you wish to remain honest and realistic - keep in mind what you are doing, be aware of it, and understand that most likely you will reach a point in which Go will become pointless to you. And that you will question yourself a lot, and never be totally at peace with your motivations - until you look the beast in the even and admit that this is all there is to it for you.

I am not sure how to address that, how to give you advice. How to help, if help is asked for here.
Maybe I was just fortunate that I always have had players around me who were so much stronger I accepted the fact I will never be like them. Over the years I have surpassed most of them, but I found others who are much stronger. So the whole idea of rank-chasing seems silly to me, no offense. Maybe its humility?... Although people who know me would probably laugh when they hear the word 'humility' and 'Rafael' in the same sentence, lol.

All in all, you yam what you yam, and all you can do is the bast with what you got.
If rank chasing is what you're all about, face it, admit it, be honest about it - to yourself. And maybe this realization itself helps you overcome this particular obstacle.

I think this is what I have to say about that, at the moment.
- Bantari
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