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28. Shaddy (1d) vs. Marcus (4k)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=340

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Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:09 pm
by topazg
I think Black should do a far high pincer now. I must confess, having tried this sort of reverse komi myself against a similar strength opponent in a Malkovich game, I think White's making it very easy for Black. Straightforward territorial josekis will leave a very steep job of clawing the game back in the second half.

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:28 pm
by Redundant
@Topazg
As someone who knows Shaddy personally ... he definitely is still capable of complicating the game. If black were to do a pincer, I would expect him to choose a difficult variation, or one of the many trick plays that he's very fond of.

Nevertheless, Shaddy did say at lunch today that he's not a big fan of how he allowed the diagonal fuseki. He wants to adopt a moyo stategy, and the fuseki choice is making it rather difficult.

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:32 pm
by fwiffo
My sealed move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:41 pm
by topazg
@Redundant
As someone who knows Shaddy personally ... he definitely is still capable of complicating the game. If black were to do a pincer, I would expect him to choose a difficult variation, or one of the many trick plays that he's very fond of.
I'm sure he can complicate things - Problem is, he isn't doing it ... yet! I'm amazed how quickly the opportunities for it disappear in the fuseki in games where your opponent has plenty of time to think like these. Still, it's going to be exciting when those trick plays start appearing - I'm trying to do mine from move 6 in my game :D

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:20 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Move: 15 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Anyone who has questions or wants me to elaborate on anything, please feel free to ask. Of course, if you wish me to continue to ramble on the way I've been doing, that's fine as well.

EDIT: Unhidden as safe

General Thoughts:
Ah, White has begun to play a little more aggressively. This is where I need to evaluate the board and start planning. Let's examine the board:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Board Position - Corners
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . P . P . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . Z P . . . . . . . . . Y . . . . . |
$$ | . . Z , . P . . . , . . . . . Y . . . |
$$ | . . . Z . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . Z . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B , W . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . @ . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
We should try and find the big and urgent moves.

:ex: : In the upper left, both sides are fairly well settled. There are no big moves, and definitely no urgent moves.

:et: : In the upper right, White has left the Joseki unfinished on order to play a bigger move (the approach against :bc: ). Black could easily make a big move in that area, but there are no urgent moves for Black here.

:es: : Approaching the 3-4 in the lower right is a big move as well, but it is not urgent yet.

:ec: : This leaves us with the lower left. Certainly, a black response here is a big move, but is it urgent? If I don't respond, the corner could end up following a 5-4 joseki sequence instead. So, not necessarily urgent either.

So, I would say there are no urgent moves on the board at this point, but plenty of big moves.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Possible Moves
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . T . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . S S . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . S S . . |
$$ | . . X , 1 . C C . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . C C . C C C . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Look at all those possibilities. Let's trim it down a bit. My next move could:

1) Defend the lower right corner (no pincer)
2) Pincer W14
3) Approach the lower right
4) Attack the white stone in the upper right

Right away, I'm going to eliminate my 4th option, since it's not as big a move as approaching an unfinished corner (in the lower right) or responding to an approach (in the lower left). I can save that option for later if White does not come back to fix it.

The three remaining possibilities are all big plays. Let's eliminate another. I don't think option 1 works well for this game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Defend - No Pincer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . c b . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The problem with all 3 of these options is that Black has spent so many moves on the left. White's stones have a good balance across the board. Black should have no less, otherwise the game is no longer balanced.

So, either I play a pincer in the lower left or I make my own approach in the lower right.

If I make another approach in the lower right, White then has two Black stones to attack. I don't think I want to split my stones up so much like that. I guess it's time to break out the variations ...

Variations:
Which pincer?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Pincers
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . b . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
These two pincers are the pincers I am most familiar with, but I really don't know them as well as I'd like. There are so many variations, and I've only just begun to study them on my own.

Option a)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Pincers
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can see White playing one of 3 ways here.

a)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Pincers
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . 5 X 4 O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Haha, awesome. Not likely, though ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Pincers
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X 4 O . 7 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . 6 1 . . . 9 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Is this even reasonable for White? I don't know enough variations for this yet.

b)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Pincers
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 7 O 0 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 5 8 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Maybe W16 is not reasonable here? I don't know.

c)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Pincers
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 6 . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ugh ... maybe not B21-23.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Pincers
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 6 . 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Better.

What about the other pincer I'm considering?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Pincers
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . e b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . 1 . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'd say these 5 are all somewhat likely (though I've been told d is sub-optimal, so White is unlikely to play it.

Of these, I know how to deal with b and d, and some of how to deal with a and b. However, there's always the possibility that my opponent will play c, forcing me into a fight where I'm not as familiar with all the tricks. I'd like to avoid that, so the first pincer is my choice!

Beginners:
A couple points to talk about here. First, balance in all things. White has spread his stones out across the board. Relative to White, Black is very concentrated on the left side. That's not necessarily bad, but a balanced game requires stones in all parts of the board. Especially in a diagonal opening, where there are usually more small groups of stones and fewer large frameworks. Be aware of the whole board and find moves that spread your influence.

To balance this, of course, you want to make sure your stones are not left too weak. In the current game, White has three lone stones, where Black has only one. I should be able to profit from that difference, if I'm careful and don't create too many weaknesses.

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:58 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Move: 16 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Annoying... Ok, that spoils my plans. I still need to make territory on the bottom and right, so I'm going to counter-pincer and fight it out. With some luck, I'll be able to play tenuki to complete the mini-chinese at some point.
Trigger:
B3 for D3

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:28 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17 Move: 17 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
General Thoughts:
It's time to test my skills!

Image

(P.S. That's my son)

As I mentioned sometime earlier, I've been playing around with this particular joseki. It's supposed to be new-ish, so let's see where this goes. For reference, here's the main line:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 New Joseki
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X 5 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . 2 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I've been wanting to try this out with a stronger player, as I know so few variations. If he plays outside of what I know, I'll have to do some heavy reading.
Variations:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 New Joseki - Main Line
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X 5 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . 2 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The above seems nice for me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 New Joseki - Variation 1
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X 5 1 . 8 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . 7 2 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Variation 1 simply strengthens my pincer stone. Nothing wrong with that.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 New Joseki - Variation 2
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 X . 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 6 3 5 . . 2 . . 0 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In Variation 2, we move back to one of the possible variations if I had made the hane in the first place.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 New Joseki - Incorrect
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X 7 1 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 0 3 6 9 . 2 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . b . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This looks alright for me, though White now gets to harass my lone pincering stone.
Beginners:
Pick something you want to learn and use it in your games whenever you can. Don't try to learn too much at a time ... even small concepts in Go have a good deal to learn about.

For myself, I want to learn more pincer joseki, especially for the 3-4. I take this opportunity to try something I'm not as familiar with in order to learn some more about it.

No matter the result of a game, there's always something new to keep me interested.

I know, not much practical advice for beginners in this one ... don't lynch me! :D

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:59 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Move: 18 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't have time to hane in the corner, I need to build this framework or the game is over. If I play the 1-space low pincer, the pincer stone ends up too close to thickness in a few variations. The 1-space high is too susceptible to forcing moves, and I don't like the feel of the 2-space low pincer (too easy to reduce). This pincer does not allow black to get free forcing moves against it, so I can live in the corner and get my framework too.
edit:
Maybe the game is making me paranoid, but I suspect he was trying to catch me in the trap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Move: 18 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X 1 O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 3 O 7 6 . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Note how white is not yet alive in the corner. Don't get caught by this!

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:49 pm
by Dusk Eagle
I believe the one joseki Marcus posted is usually finished up as:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Joseki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
What Shaddy posted, playing :w2: before :wc: , is clearly wrong for the reasons he showed.

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:58 am
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 Move: 19 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
General Thoughts:
White pincered my pincer!

Image

The next few moves will define the flow of the game. White is making a play towards the center. What I need to do is keep my weaknesses to a minimum without sacrificing my influence.

It's one thing to keep my groups strong, but I also have to keep my opponent from completely surrounding the center.

First thing's first, though ... my pincer stone needs some help. White has once again left a joseki incomplete. I can take advantage of that and play a stone on what would have been an important point in the joseki for White. Now my pincer stone has help.

It is a 2nd line move, though. I need to be careful to get some influence towards the center in the next few moves so I don't fall behind in that aspect of the game.
Beginners:
A couple more concepts are starting to show up in the game.

1) My opponent's good move is also a good move for me.

Since my opponent decided to jump out of the joseki sequence, I can choose one of the moves he would have played and play it myself. This weakens his stones in the corner while strengthening my own.

2) Managing weak groups
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 Move: 19 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B , Q . . . . W . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . Q . . . Y . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My opponent and I are fighting for position. Before the fight is done, we have to decide how best to use our stones.

In this case, we each have two "groups" to work with. My :bc: group is two stones, and has room to run up the left side and out towards the center. My :bt: stone, however, is all alone between two White groups.

In a fight, you want to help the weaker group/stone if you can. If not, you want to preserve or use any aji that stone gives you.

In comparison, White's :wc: stone has access to the bottom edge towards the right and can run into the center easily.

2) Territory vs Influence

This is another balance to strike in go, and is extremely important in the opening. Notice that White has played his most recent move on the 4th line. The goal of a move on the 4th line in the opening is usually not to secure territory, but to maintain access to the center.

When considering territory, starting in the corners then moving on to the sides is the most efficient way to gain solid points. However, once the corners and sides are settled, you must turn your attention to the center. If you've spent all your opening moves securing territory, it's possible that your opponent has cut you off completely from the center. This can give your opponent a huge chunk of points in the center.

So, once again we find a need for balance in the opening. Short-term plans should be made to take local territory, and long-term plans need to be made to ensure that the center is not as big a factor.

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:53 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Move: 20 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Image
First instinct is correct yet again. Black will have to make life on the side for his group while I develop the framework, and my corner group is pretty strong now. I checked other possibilities, like hane against the corner stone- most of them get my stones cut apart, others end in gote. This is the only way I can get sente out of the corner.

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:59 am
by Marcus
It might be a few hours before I can properly post my move. Sorry for the delay.

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:00 pm
by Shaddy
no worries

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 2:33 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Move: 21 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Nice image. :D

General Thoughts:
To me, White's move 20 seems like inefficient shape. There are some traps to watch out for, but I think that Black MUST respond, otherwise my corner becomes rather large. I don't think I need to necessarily respond after White 22, though. Move 23 will be very important.
Variations:
Here's why I don't think White should ignore:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Black takes a huge corner.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X 4 O . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 O . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is a huge corner for Black. I don't think White can afford it. However, White's shape looks horrible after defending the cut.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Defense 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . X , W . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 W . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White makes an empty triangle, and Black can tenuki for fun and profit!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Defense 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X 2 W . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O a W . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White again makes an empty triangle, and Black can calmly extend towards the edge, leaving a gaping hole at a.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Defense 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O a O . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is likely how White will respond. Now the cut at a becomes dangerous for Black, due to a shortage of liberties.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Dangerous Cut - Variation 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 4 O . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 9 O 3 O 5 X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 0 2 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black loses this race.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Dangerous Cut - Variation 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 4 O . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 5 O 3 O 9 X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 6 2 1 X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yet another failure for Black. So, pushing would be wrong. The best move for Black 23, if White responds directly to Black 21, is to approach the lower right corner.

Of course, given the situation, I bet White plays at R5 or R9 himself right now. I'll deal with that when and if it happens.
Beginners:
The Empty Triangle and efficient shape is a good topic for this move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Shape and Efficiency
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X , O . . . . O
$$ | . . O 1 W . B . . .
$$ | . . . X X a . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
This would be the position in the game if White played at D3. Of what use is :wc: ? White's stones are connected without it, and it does not threaten to cut at a, thanks to :bc: . D3 makes an Empty Triangle (link) for White.

What if White had played directly at D3 instead of descending?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 Shape and Efficiency
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . B , O . . . . O
$$ | . . O 2 . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
To me, this looks more efficient. His stones are connected, and :bc: is under the same amount of pressure as in the previous situation.

In the opening, every stone you play should be either taking big points, or necessary for either attack or defense (ideally, some moves will be two or even all three of these things).

Studying shape is one way to improve in this area of the game. However, simply playing many games and examining each corner once the opening is complete is a good exercise as part of that studying.

Re: Malkovich #28 - Shaddy (W, 1d) vs Marcus (B, 4k) - 0H -4

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 11:42 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Move: 22 - Black Prisoners: 0 - White Prisoners: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Sorry, I've been busy today. I'll have more time now.
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