Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
https://lifein19x19.com/

105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3476

Page 2 of 8

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:13 am
by topazg
Indeed. In fact, Choi Cheolhan played it just the other day (move 61) :)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:41 pm
by emerus
<my mistake - removed>
emeraldemon wrote:
So, while [P4 is] unusual in modern games
I just want to mention that somehow the diagonal has gotten a reputation as an "old move" among amateurs (probably Hikaru no Go?), but it isn't actually. I used GoGoD to search games from 1990 to the present, and found it was the second most popular move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Most common responses, 1990-2011
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . W . . . c
$$ | . . X , . . . a .
$$ | . . . b . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
a - 2090 games
b - 1860 games
c - 1109 games
plus a bunch of other stuff.

Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:51 pm
by EdLee
emerus wrote:Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.
I thought this was a closed comments game?

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:58 pm
by emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 0 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ugh, forum posting is killing me. I can't get any post right. :oops:

Re:

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:59 pm
by emerus
EdLee wrote:
emerus wrote:Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.
I thought this was a closed comments game?
Oh woops. No, I just misquoted the wrong post. Didn't even realize or read it, though I guess I saw it.

Sorry fellas....
@emerus
Just so that you don't feel left out with all the hidden comments directed at me :mrgreen:
@mnemonic
Aw, how sweet. :D It's cool that this is an observed malkovich. Your comments must be pretty good.

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:14 pm
by EdLee
emerus:
It's OK. Browser mis-click happens. :) I found it dangerous to use the "quote" button in my own Malkovich game.

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:45 am
by Mnemonic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't like this move. It looks odd and I don't think it is joseki (although I'm hardly an expert on that) The problem is, most of my moves result in an shapeless, eyeless, floating group for black. :sad:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Most Ideas still revolve around (a) and (b) with maybe a kikashi first around the shaded area
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O ? . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 looks ok, but I'm more woried about the crosscut
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 8 O 3 X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 2 6 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Can't really say I like this variation, but it's probably the best I can come up with
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X 4 . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 The problem with any plays here is that white can ignore them. And now?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 better shape?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . 3 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Conclusion: :evil:

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:36 am
by topazg
Hidden until the corner is resolved, then for Mnemonic
You don't like the following?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 8 O 3 X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 2 6 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Continuation perhaps:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X 3 5 7 . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . O X O O 1 O 6 8 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That's not that great a corner, and what thickness you have - and in sente! I'd take it, anyway :)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:52 pm
by emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is an interesting shape. I feel that white will come out slightly on top but the results are dynamic for both players.
obs:
Is using full SGF files OK or do you prefer diagrams? I might be getting too carried away with crappy variations. Let me know.

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:03 pm
by yoyoma
emerus:
You posted that Black's joseki move is G6. But when Black didn't do that, why didn't you consider any variations for white adding a move in that area.

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:07 pm
by emerus
yoyoma wrote:emerus:
You posted that Black's joseki move is G6. But when Black didn't do that, why didn't you consider any variations for white adding a move in that area.
Black is making quite a severe attack on my corner (threatening to capture in 1 move) and with thin shape so I feel like it would be submissive to allow him to fix his shape for a bit of influence or a wall around f6/g6.


Also, the original idea with my joseki choice is for territory and to prevent black from pressing me and working well with p4. I don't want to change my plan unless I can find something special.

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:10 pm
by EdLee
Mnemonic:
Mnemonic wrote:The problem is, most of my moves result in an shapeless, eyeless, floating group for black. :sad:
What a fantastic motivation to study why :b1: is a joseki move! :mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 1 . .
$$ | . . O , X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------[/go]

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:34 am
by Shaddy
emerus,
I prefer diagrams. It's difficult to make sure I see all the variations in an sgf, and the possibility of missing one is annoying.

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:50 am
by hman
Shaddy wrote:emerus,
I prefer diagrams. It's difficult to make sure I see all the variations in an sgf, and the possibility of missing one is annoying.
Also, with diagrams from time to time you can go and open all the hide Tags, print the whole thing to PDF for archival or for paper and old fashoned perusal and study.

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:46 pm
by Mnemonic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc A wall in gote with W getting 5th line territory?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 2 X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X 4 . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc This is basicall what I'm planing. Marked exchange obviosly bad for black.\n (Why haven't I thought of that move before?)
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . 3 . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 2 of 8

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited