Life In 19x19

It's only a dick move if you're doing it to stall the ending of the game. If it actually affected the number of points, like the OP originally thought, then it would be quite an effective strategy.

If it actually affects the number of points or if you honestly think there might be a way to live, the stones aren’t useless are they?

But if you don't honestly think there might be a way to live but you think your opponent may not know the right way (for example in a nine stone handicap game), what then? dick move or not?

Well, in a normal non-handicap game, go for it. Of course, if you think there might be a way to live, it's kind of weird for you to leave it until the end of the game. When playing a nine-stone handicap game though, I wouldn't, simply because at that handicap I consider the game more of a teaching game than a competitive one.

mithra wrote:But if you don't honestly think there might be a way to live but you think your opponent may not know the right way (for example in a nine stone handicap game), what then? dick move or not?

That really depends on the game. If I or my opponent has had a really rough day, I might leave it as-is. If my opponent was on his or her game and really just wanted to improve, I might invade and plan to show him (or her) the proper way to kill the invasion after the game. I might even say 'Hey, there's a way to kill this, but be careful, it's tricky'. That said, I'd also allow undos, if I wasn't horribly behind.

And if it's a tournament game, I'd play the invasion and give it a shot. I've lost a tournament game to something like this (I was in byo-yomi, which I'm bad at), but I don't resent it at all. I managed my time poorly, so I didn't have enough for this. But I'm not talking about timing in general. I just mean: in a tournament game, I'm okay with trick plays and such, as winning feels like it matters more. That said, if I know my opponent will be 80-90% likely to know the refutation, I probably won't play it.

So again, it really depends on the situation.

mithra wrote:But if you don't honestly think there might be a way to live but you think your opponent may not know the right way (for example in a nine stone handicap game), what then? dick move or not?

Another one of my favorite sayings is "Play the Game, Don't Game the Player". I think that making bad moves in the hopes that your opponent is too weak to answer properly is a total dick move.

Redbeard wrote:

mithra wrote:But if you don't honestly think there might be a way to live but you think your opponent may not know the right way (for example in a nine stone handicap game), what then? dick move or not?

Another one of my favorite sayings is "Play the Game, Don't Game the Player". I think that making bad moves in the hopes that your opponent is too weak to answer properly is a total dick move.

I think it depends here myself. I am new to Go, so I don't know how players prepare for major matches in tournaments. That being said, in other games like Chess, it is pretty common for grandmasters to study the games of their opponents searching for weaknesses in their game that they can exploit over the board.

So, if the players are relatively equal, and the game is competitive enough, I would say it is perfectly legitimate to take advantage of a player's weakness to help you win the game.

On the flip side, if you are playing a much weaker player, you might not want to do this sort of thing since it will likely lead to only a more lopsided victory.

--
Bill

MarylandBill wrote:
I think it depends here myself. I am new to Go, so I don't know how players prepare for major matches in tournaments. That being said, in other games like Chess, it is pretty common for grandmasters to study the games of their opponents searching for weaknesses in their game that they can exploit over the board.

So, if the players are relatively equal, and the game is competitive enough, I would say it is perfectly legitimate to take advantage of a player's weakness to help you win the game.

On the flip side, if you are playing a much weaker player, you might not want to do this sort of thing since it will likely lead to only a more lopsided victory.

--
Bill

I certainly think the top dogs study one another in depth looking for stylistic weaknesses, but they would never play anything we could call a "useless move" to exploit it. If they find something, their moves will still be severe, but with a slightly different style.

That being said, I find nothing wrong with gaming your opponent. Psychology is important, and saying "well that's not fair" is just asking to get beaten up by it and forced on-tilt.

What was that line in Pirates of the Caribbean? "The only thing that matters, what a man can do, and what a man can't do"

There's nothing preventing psychological warfare, so at the very least you should work on your defenses.

I myself, when I was about 2 dan, got rolled by a 3 kyu in an even game, because I self-destructed when I got impatient, and he would take a long time for each move.

It was an important lesson for me, and it helped me advance.