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111. mic vs Puppycakes

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3594

Page 2 of 2

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:15 am
by Puppycakes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't really want to just go along with his plans, so I'm going to try a move that he can't easily answer. Honestly, I'm not sure what the best answer is either, so I decided to go with this.

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:18 am
by mic
Hi,

I have to think about this a little bit longer, but will reply as soon as I know what I should do ;-)

Michael

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:07 am
by mic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Phew, to be honest I have no idea if this move is any good. The are too many variations with no clear outcome. At least :bc: feels solid and a bit less defensive than a.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:54 am
by EdLee
Hidden until upper left corner is completely settled:
:w11: seems to be a very occasional move -- only 4 games out of a database of 50,744 (1900, 1974, 1995, 1997) --
compared to 115 games for :w11: at (a); then :b12: at (b) or (c):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . b . a O . .
$$ | . . 1 X . X O .
$$ | . . c . . X . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:32 am
by Puppycakes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel like this is more playing to prevent points for my opponent than it is to making my own points, but sometimes that's a not a much worse strategy. Anyhow, games like this are tough because I like to attack opponent stones and so I kind of hope that I can make that happen in this game. In handicap games, I don't like it as much when the opponent plays moves that promise to settle things rather quickly.

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:06 am
by mic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I expect this sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 . X O a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and then I can play either a or b (preferring a at the moment)

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:46 am
by Puppycakes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 B . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Simple thoughts here. If he doesn't respond, I get to take the corner in sente with an atari that makes my group safe. If he does respond, it helps me with my base. I certainly wouldn't want him to get this point.

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:13 am
by mic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As expected. I just hope I can attack the two lonely stones and gain some profit. If not, the D16 group is enclosed from two sides.

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:20 am
by EdLee
Hidden until upper left quadrant of the board is completely settled, then for mic,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . .
$$ | . Q X . X W . . . .
$$ | . . Q # . X W . . ,
$$ | . . Q . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,[/go]
mic wrote:As expected. I just hope I can attack the two lonely stones and gain some profit.
If not, the :bs: group is enclosed from two sides.
A very distorted view of the situation, as :bs: is very strong,
:wc: is already very damaged, and :wt: still needs a move to settle.

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:50 am
by Puppycakes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Those two stones in the top center are pretty light. If he attacks them severly, I'll probably leave them for aji and count on my timing being better than his. If he cuts, I feel really great. It's the type of move that somebody around his strength is somewhat likely to make. Anyhow, I think that a play around the top side star point is good for him. I'm still hoping for a way to get him to make a weak group that I can exploit.

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:24 am
by mic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Although I'd really like to play a I can't let white play b and remove the base of D10. Hope, this isn't the wrong timing. If white plays :w19: I hopefully doesn't have lost anything; if not, I hopefully have the chance to play there myself. A lot of "hopefullys" ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:45 am
by mw42
@mic

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b . Y . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


You should be careful with this type of exchange. It really isn't very big right now and the shape leaves a weakness at (c). If you tenuki and white plays at (b) I think the result is good for you since white had to play on the second line so early. If he doesn't play at (b) then you may gain an opportunity to attack his group at some point later. It is also conceivable here that white will ignore this.

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:36 am
by Puppycakes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If I ignore this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move does a lot to undermine my base and then I have to worry about the life of my group.


I also considered this, but I think that I don't need to resort that that sort of move just yet and it does a lot to help solidify black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 4 X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:54 am
by mic
Hi puppycakes,

I haven't forgotten our game, but currently have there is a bit chaos at work + currently no internet at home. I'll answer as soon as I can.

- Michael

Re: 111. mic vs Puppycakes

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:38 am
by Puppycakes
Cool. Don't worry about it. Thanks for letting me know.
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