Life In 19x19

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:08 am**

oren wrote:
daal wrote:Well, yeah, I was just complaining. And you still haven't mentioned what tools there are and if they can eliminate the problem.

I found this

http://www.wikihow.com/Test-Network-and ... ft-Windows

I've used ping and traceroute quite a bit but not from windows before.

You can fix it if it's local. If it's something upstream it's possible that your ISP is just bad. You may also want to ask your ISP to replace your modem.

Describe your setup. Are you wireless or wired? ADSL or cable modem? Do you have anything else on your network? How often does lag go high and come back?

I tried the test. Strangely, pinging microsoft.com -t timed out, but substituting google.com got a good result. When I pinged gokgs, I got a slower result- about 140 ms, but nothing like no response for 30 seconds. Unfortunately, aside from the above, nothing indicated lag on my side, and if it did, I would still be at a loss as to how to interpret the data. (This is not my field of expertise). The problem with lag is that it happens intermittently. A test of this sort won't tell me about the likelyhood of a dropout occurring at a certain point in time (like with 5 seconds left in the last byo-yomi), will it?

My setup is wireless, and it's dsl 2000.

The reason I am complaining, and the reason I suspect that it isn't just something on my side is that lag seems to occur disproportionately towards the end of a game. Maybe that's just the way it seems.

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:48 am**

daal wrote:My setup is wireless, and it's dsl 2000.

The reason I am complaining, and the reason I suspect that it isn't just something on my side is that lag seems to occur disproportionately towards the end of a game. Maybe that's just the way it seems.

I'm guessing it's the way it seems rather than reality.

I've had bad luck with DSL before. One thing you can do is check with your ISP web page if there's a new version of the software for it. You can also run a few games wired. If you still see the lag, you know it's an issue with the wireless.

You can also keep pinging for an hour while saving all the data. See if there are times it spikes up.

One thing that may be causing lag on wireless is other people using yours or people nearby on their routers on the same frequency.

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:07 pm**

Also, some isp's intentionally throttle continuous communication from your computer. They have some euphemism for it like "flow shaping", but the underlying project is to strangle off peer-to-peer file sharing. Last September I had an isp that simply throttled the connection if I had been using KGS for five minutes; then after a few minutes, a ton of moves would flow onto the screen, and then it would lag again.

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:03 am**

jts wrote:Also, some isp's intentionally throttle continuous communication from your computer. They have some euphemism for it like "flow shaping", but the underlying project is to strangle off peer-to-peer file sharing. Last September I had an isp that simply throttled the connection if I had been using KGS for five minutes; then after a few minutes, a ton of moves would flow onto the screen, and then it would lag again.

How were you able to determine that your isp was the cause of the problem?

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:05 pm**

jts wrote:...; then after a few minutes, a ton of moves would flow onto the screen, and then it would lag again.

When mine lags, I see the same sort of behavior.

However, its usually the memory and/or cpu of the java virtual machine on my own machine (or maybe even my wireless connection also).

Once, when I was running an online tournament, I was logged on with two separate accounts on two machines (my personal account on one machine, and the TD account on my other machine). One Mac, the other Windows.

While one machine was seriously lagging, the other was just fine. So it had nothing to do with my ISP.

Also, my Mac has a worse wireless connection than my PC. My previous wireless router worked much better with Macs than my current router.

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:25 pm**

daal wrote:
jts wrote:Also, some isp's intentionally throttle continuous communication from your computer. They have some euphemism for it like "flow shaping", but the underlying project is to strangle off peer-to-peer file sharing. Last September I had an isp that simply throttled the connection if I had been using KGS for five minutes; then after a few minutes, a ton of moves would flow onto the screen, and then it would lag again.

How were you able to determine that your isp was the cause of the problem?

xed_over wrote:However, its usually the memory and/or cpu of the java virtual machine on my own machine (or maybe even my wireless connection also).

I tested KGS on three laptops. I was subletting that month, and when I moved out the problem disappeared in a day.

I still occasionally have lag, but it's hard to say whether it's memory, cpu, or spare bandwidth, because running torrents hogs all three of them at once.

Posted: **Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:50 am**

jts wrote:I tested KGS on three laptops. I was subletting that month, and when I moved out the problem disappeared in a day.

yeah, I'm not saying that its not you isp. It could be. But for me it clearly wasn't.

jts wrote: because running torrents hogs all three of them at once.

haha... that's gotta be it

Posted: **Sat May 07, 2011 2:01 am**

Just happened again. No lag the whole game until 10 seconds left in the last byo yomi in an even game I was winning against a 4k. I panicked, tried to log out and pushed the resign button by mistake in the same moment as my last stone fell into place. :grumpy:

Posted: **Sun May 08, 2011 7:26 am**

Usually if you're lagging and you click on "server stats," it'll detect the lag and disconnect you immediately. If that doesn't work...go get a new computer/internet provider.

Posted: **Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:26 pm**

While looking for a similar experience I found this post.

I'm amazed at the number of wrong information displayed on this forum.

The lag on KGS is not caused by a bad connection on the client side. Nor is it a network or ISP problem. We live in 2012, my connection is extremely fast, getting contents from anywhere in the world at an amazing speed.

There seem to be a lot of KGS advocates here who tag any complaints as trolling.
These people should be ashamed to let the "lag victims" monitor their traffic or contact their ISP for a problem that comes from KGS.

The facts are:

-My connection is extremely fast
-When playing on KGS I make sure the traffic on my connection is at a minimum
-I never had any problem of disconnection or lagging on other 10 times busier servers around the world

Don't tell me my connection cannot handle a few additional bits with GO information.

The lag problem (since it doesn't only concern a couple of players in China) does come from KGS itself.

The client and server run on old technology that was awesome 10 years ago.

I would like to hear: "Yes, our server is not configured to handle so many connections and this causes lag for some users and thus results in a bad experience. This is our fault and we are working on the issue."

Until this is acknowledged and resolved I will play on modern servers and I suggest others to do the same.

Posted: **Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:32 pm**

odnihs wrote:Usually if you're lagging and you click on "server stats," it'll detect the lag and disconnect you immediately. If that doesn't work...go get a new computer/internet provider.

If you're lagging, the server will never receive the "server stats" command, thus will not detect anything.

My ISP and computer are extremely fast and modern. I can get loads of data from anywhere in the world extremely fast. If someone needs to change stuff, it's KGS.

Posted: **Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:36 pm**

sefo wrote:While looking for a similar experience I found this post.

I'm amazed at the number of wrong information displayed on this forum.

The lag on KGS is not caused by a bad connection on the client side. Nor is it a network or ISP problem. We live in 2012, my connection is extremely fast, getting contents from anywhere in the world at an amazing speed.

There seem to be a lot of KGS advocates here who tag any complaints as trolling.
These people should be ashamed to let the "lag victims" monitor their traffic or contact their ISP for a problem that comes from KGS.

The facts are:

-My connection is extremely fast
-When playing on KGS I make sure the traffic on my connection is at a minimum
-I never had any problem of disconnection or lagging on other 10 times busier servers around the world

Don't tell me my connection cannot handle a few additional bits with GO information.

The lag problem (since it doesn't only concern a couple of players in China) does come from KGS itself.

The client and server run on old technology that was awesome 10 years ago.

I would like to hear: "Yes, our server is not configured to handle so many connections and this causes lag for some users and thus results in a bad experience. This is our fault and we are working on the issue."

Until this is acknowledged and resolved I will play on modern servers and I suggest others to do the same.

I am with sefo 100% on this. I saw the topic and thought I might find some news about the current problems KGS (not the net) is having. No such luck. I could only wonder, don't any of the responders actually play on KGS? Recently (I think this year is clearly worse than last year) the performance is terrible. I do not know whether 'lag' is the right term but it seems that what we are experiencing is a lack of response from the server. It is not limited to the end of the game nor is it every move, but naturally it is rather more salient when those last seconds are ticking away. :blackeye:

Posted: **Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:30 am**

Hello,

sefo wrote:The lag problem (since it doesn't only concern a couple of players in China) does come from KGS itself.

The client and server run on old technology that was awesome 10 years ago.

I would like to hear: "Yes, our server is not configured to handle so many connections and this causes lag for some users and thus results in a bad experience. This is our fault and we are working on the issue."

Until this is acknowledged and resolved I will play on modern servers and I suggest others to do the same.

I used to work for an IT vendor and was involved in the design/implementation of a fair bit of networking infrastructure. As a result, I'm somewhat familiar with networking issues. I'd like to understand your networking background, so that I can determine the level of knowledge which is the basis of your statements. Normally identifying the cause of networking issues can be quite complex, so I'm interested to learn how you arrived at your diagnosis.

Posted: **Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:00 am**

sefo wrote:The client and server run on old technology that was awesome 10 years ago.

Technically tcpip is almost 40 years so I would concede that kgs is running on an old technology.

Code: Select all

C:\tracert goserver.gokgs.com

Maybe you can post a screenshot of the result of the above command ?

This would prove the lag is caused by kgs like you claimed assuming there is no traffic shaping by your isp.

You can check your isp at http://wiki.vuze.com/w/Bad_ISPs for that.

Posted: **Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:47 pm**

Thank you for all your advice. I am myself working as a security analyst for a large multinational company and I have a deep knowledge of networking.

duckweed: tcpip is not involved in the discussion. I'm talking about kgs software.
I also see you've learned about tracert. Others might be impressed but again it has no place in this discussion.

BigDoug:

Normally identifying the cause of networking issues can be quite complex, so I'm interested to learn how you arrived at your diagnosis.

It's not complex. Generally when you use a 10 years old, custom made game server that is updated once in a while by a single developer, you must rewrite it from scratch to catch up with your server increased activity, make it more secure, faster...etc.

My diagnosis is simple and doesn't require any technical knowledge:

KGS lags (badly) on many modern systems from around the world. Said systems perform extremely well on other servers. The average internet user of 2012 transfers more data per second than during 100 kgs games. So why transferring a few bits of game data should be subject to so many problems?

Note the key points:
Small data transfer -> KGS = bad lag
Huge data transfer -> other servers = no problem whatsoever.

Only the worst customer service witnessing all the complaints above will ask the users to change hardware and Internet provider on the basis that the majority of users have no or few problems.

The problem probably comes from the server design, database access, game client, server hardware and bandwidth.

Acknowledge and look into it, but don't ask us to change whatever system we have. We are satisfied with the performance running anything but KGS.

You may also choose to ignore / ban / tag as troll the people who encounter this lag problem.
It has been your strategy until now and you still have a big user base. I guess you win.

To others getting lag problems, there are better alternatives to KGS. They need some getting used to but they are worth your while in terms of skill improvement and enjoyment of the game.

Life In 19x19

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