Life In 19x19

rubin427 wrote:

oren wrote:...Java under wine...

Now that's lateral thinking. Don't know if your post was intended to be humorous, but it made me smile.

Yeah, that's pretty crazy!

The only times I've had problems with Java on Linux was when I had accidentally installed the OpenJDK or whatever it is that *buntu ships, and that was being used rather than the official Sun version I manually installed. :/

wms wrote:However there is something else on the horizon that may or may not happen, and if it does, it will mean reworking this list a lot. We'll see.

Thank you for confirming that the Java rock wms, the esteemed and honourable knight in the rebellion against Tyrant Jobs, has finally started to crumble and that you plan on rewriting the client in C++/Objective-C so that finally there can be a native iOS/OSX client!

Oh wait, you did not...

Well, wms has hinted that there might be a non-java web client some day. I think he said it would be a lot of work and probably wouldn't happen soon.

I think I'll just start speculating about the future of KGS instead of what Apple does next.

rubin427 wrote:

oren wrote:...Java under wine...

Now that's lateral thinking. Don't know if your post was intended to be humorous, but it made me smile.

I'm pretty sure there is a contest somewhere about who can run most nested virtual environments

Something along the lines of running an x86 emulator on OSX, booting Windows inside it, inside that a Cygwin session, running Wine, running the Windows version of DosBox, running Windows 3.11, running a Playstation emulator, running Linux, ...

I'd love for there to be an option to turn the byo-yomi warning sounds to 'five,four,three,two,one' rather than 'beep beep beep beep beep'.

Think I would lose fewer games on time that way.

palapiku wrote:

LovroKlc wrote:

Pippen wrote:Great! KGS is the best Go Server, by far better than IGS, and I hope it won't die soon .

but well, IGS is not the only competition...

It is, if you're on linux or mac

agreed. however.. when a player isn't online and you want to buddy them, macs tend to have a hard time doing so unless that player is online. I'm not sure if this is a universal problem for macs. but every mac I've got on has had that problem when I played on KGS. However, KGS is the easiest used so I don't use the other go servers out there (mainly because they don't have a way to use it with mac.)

The second biggest issue I run into, after broken copy-paste on the Mac, is that sending chat to a player is very indirect. If I'm not in a game with a player and they're logged on, I have to go to the EGR and then find their name in the hundreds of players logged on. Sometimes it's worse, and they're not a member of the EGR, and I have to add a room to my list.

hyperpape wrote:The second biggest issue I run into, after broken copy-paste on the Mac, is that sending chat to a player is very indirect. If I'm not in a game with a player and they're logged on, I have to go to the EGR and then find their name in the hundreds of players logged on. Sometimes it's worse, and they're not a member of the EGR, and I have to add a room to my list.

Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V should work on Mac, no? (I am not a Mac user)

For chatting with a user, if you go to User menu -> Leave message and the person is online, it will open a chat window, no need to go room hunting.

Mef wrote:Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V should work on Mac, no? (I am not a Mac user)

Yup. It's non-standard behavior and not clearly indicated in the app (I've talked to several people who didn't know it was possible to copy-paste in KGS). I'm not sure I have ever used another Mac app that used Ctrl-C instead of Cmd-C.

hyperpape wrote:

Mef wrote:Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V should work on Mac, no? (I am not a Mac user)

Yup. It's non-standard behavior and not clearly indicated in the app (I've talked to several people who didn't know it was possible to copy-paste in KGS). I'm not sure I have ever used another Mac app that used Ctrl-C instead of Cmd-C.

Perhaps documenting it better in the help files would be the way to go. As far as I know (once again caveat -- I don't use much Mac, and it's been quite a while since I've programmed any Java) it's a platform independence/Java issue. If I recall correctly, the Mac command button is treated like windows button and any other native menu button (as opposed to the ctrl button, which is pretty much the ctrl button anywhere). I mean, I'm sure there are workarounds out there, but I don't know how simple they are.


[Edit in realtime]-- Actually out of curiousity, I just did a quick google search and found this: http://www.csc.fi/blogs/software/mac-os ... gs-in-java apparently KGS is not the only person suffering from these issues (=

Ctrl+C/Ctrl-V on mac is annoying. You don't really think of copy and paste as application-specific shortcuts - they work the same on the entire system (on Mac, anyway), so the very idea of having them mapped to different keys for one specific application is alien and confusing. And it took me a while to discover that KGS had copy/paste at all, since they're not documented.

In all other apps I copy-paste from muscle memory, without even thinking what keys I press. In KGS I do that, get no result, stop, remember that the shortcuts are different, then actually look at the keyboard to find the rarely used Ctrl key. I would say this is the biggest usability issue on mac right now.

palapiku wrote:Ctrl+C/Ctrl-V on mac is annoying. You don't really think of copy and paste as application-specific shortcuts - they work the same on the entire system (on Mac, anyway), so the very idea of having them mapped to different keys for one specific application is alien and confusing. And it took me a while to discover that KGS had copy/paste at all, since they're not documented.

In all other apps I copy-paste from muscle memory, without even thinking what keys I press. In KGS I do that, get no result, stop, remember that the shortcuts are different, then actually look at the keyboard to find the rarely used Ctrl key. I would say this is the biggest usability issue on mac right now.

You may not think of copy and paste as application specific, but outside the Mac-user bubble, the rest of the world doesn't think of Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V as system specific shortcuts. My muscle memory tells me that Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V will copy and paste on any system... a heuristic which only fails on the Mac.

It'd be possible to make copy and paste work with command-c and command-v on mac systems. As someone that uses a Mac often, I'd prefer this. When I want to copy something from another application into the KGS chat window, I use command-c to copy, and control-v to paste into KGS.

That said, since I know that control-c and control-v work on the KGS client, I have no real problem with it. I just always have that split second thought, "oh yeah, I have to use control-c and control-v with this application".

jts wrote:... My muscle memory tells me that Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V will copy and paste on any system... a heuristic which only fails on the Mac.

You must not use macs much. If you did, your muscle memory would remember to use the command key in many situations where you would use control on a different OS, such as windows. I often multitask when using KGS, and all other applications that I run on a regular basis use command-c and command-v.

This offtopic is getting out of hand, but here it goes anyway:

Actually, UNIX/Linux style is ctrl+insert and shift+insert, ctrl+c and ctrl+v were recently introduced and there are some applications which do not support it.

ctrl+c and ctrl+v is "Windows way".

jts wrote:You may not think of copy and paste as application specific, but outside the Mac-user bubble, the rest of the world doesn't think of Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V as system specific shortcuts. My muscle memory tells me that Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V will copy and paste on any system... a heuristic which only fails on the Mac.

Perhaps, and it's possible that "outside the Mac-user bubble" Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V shortcuts are just fine, but that doesn't change the fact that on the Mac they are a usability bug.

As an analogy, no matter how big a fan of the metric system you might be, it would be strange for a US-based company to require customers to use metric measurements.