Life In 19x19

Mef wrote:

Araban wrote:I find both equally difficult . But I think there are several possible reasons why OP may find it easier to kill than to live:

• ...
• He may be the type of player that likes to play thick and force the opponent to enter the lion's den / framework, so more experience in killing (the invasion) could come from that.
• ...

I think the 2nd option there seems quite likely though perhaps with other effects than the one stated. If you and your opponent typically play solidly, it may be that a large number of the invasions are unreasonable and should die (hence they're easier to kill).
...

Thanks for the observation. Although I am certainly not skilled enough to have a "style," I do indeed prefer to play solidly, i.e., make safe groups and then attack something. As a consequence, I often feel that I'm behind by the middle game, so either I have to kill something or make a risky invasion. My solid positions usually give me a bit of an advantage when trapping an opponent's group, and in fact I win a fair ammount of my games when this is the deciding factor. On the other hand, if there is nothing to kill, I usually have to invade, and McGyver I'm not.

I also think that it's interesting to note that many of the McGyver voters (saying it's easier to live) are players a good bit stronger than me, so probably the reason that me or my opponents are dying is that we're playing unreasonably.

Frankly I suck at both - I need to do more go problems I think.

I don't kill things often, but I sure lose groups...~

I'm somewhat notorious for my skill at making life in situations where it is seemingly impossible. Several of my go friends will refer to really dead groups with "Even Herman couldn't make that one live" (and sometimes, they're wrong )

HermanHiddema wrote:I'm somewhat notorious for my skill at making life in situations where it is seemingly impossible. Several of my go friends will refer to really dead groups with "Even Herman couldn't make that one live" (and sometimes, they're wrong )

Wasn't there a Japanese pro with a really famous reputation for doing this?

topazg wrote:

HermanHiddema wrote:I'm somewhat notorious for my skill at making life in situations where it is seemingly impossible. Several of my go friends will refer to really dead groups with "Even Herman couldn't make that one live" (and sometimes, they're wrong )

Wasn't there a Japanese pro with a really famous reputation for doing this?

Yep, Cho Chikun was well known for this skill, I believe. See also: Shinogi.

For living there are several ways:
-make two eyes
-escape and connect to a living group
-capture a surrounding group
-seki
-double ko
...

Either one is good for living. But for killing you have to prevent all.
Therefore I find living easier than killing. Probably this kind of thinking doesn't make any sense, but it's just a feeling

topazg wrote:Frankly I suck at both - I need to do more go problems I think.

I'm 4 stones weaker than topazg, but we played an even game in Sunday's Cambridge Barlow tournament and he did, much to my admiration, manage to do a 3,3 invasion and die. Not die in ko - ko would, I think, have been the "right" result in the situation given the local stones - but just die. Of course, this would make me even happier if I hadn't died on the remaining three quarters of the board ...

Yes. I'm fairly good at killing groups, for my strength, even stronger players' groups. In the last three days I've killed two 3,3 invasions, one topazg's and one a 3d's (he was giving me 6 stones and resigned), both of which I think should have been ko ... unfortunately, making my own groups live doesn't go nearly as well ...

P.S. Ah, someone has explained the poll. Now I can vote. Thank you!

Hard to say...

My biggest weakness is creating too many groups on the board, resulting in me having to struggle to keep everything alive, somthing that often succeeds, but almost as often fails.
This style usually does not leave a lot of time to kill my opponent's group (sometimes I kill parts to connect or escape, but I rarely make big kills in serious (tournament) games)

I guess I'm just as bad ad killing things as I am at making life. If possible I try to avoid L&D situations, though my style of making a lot of groups is not helping with that (I just think of it as good practice )

simpkin wrote:

topazg wrote:Frankly I suck at both - I need to do more go problems I think.

I'm 4 stones weaker than topazg, but we played an even game in Sunday's Cambridge Barlow tournament and he did, much to my admiration, manage to do a 3,3 invasion and die. Not die in ko - ko would, I think, have been the "right" result in the situation given the local stones - but just die. Of course, this would make me even happier if I hadn't died on the remaining three quarters of the board ...

Yes. I'm fairly good at killing groups, for my strength, even stronger players' groups. In the last three days I've killed two 3,3 invasions, one topazg's and one a 3d's (he was giving me 6 stones and resigned), both of which I think should have been ko ... unfortunately, making my own groups live doesn't go nearly as well ...

P.S. Ah, someone has explained the poll. Now I can vote. Thank you!

Haha, yeah, that was one of my better moments

Just for everyone else's amusement (I was White):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . .
$$ | . . 0 X . . 5 2 3 O . .
$$ | . . 8 9 . O 7 1 4 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm11
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 1 . . . . . O . . .
$$ | 4 8 W X . . X O . O . .
$$ | . 7 O X . O X X O . . .
$$ | . 6 5 0 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 9 . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . O . . .
$$ | O O O X . 3 X O . O . .
$$ | . X O X . O X X O . . .
$$ | 1 O X W 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Yay for L+D brainfartiness. And people wonder why I keep failing to get my EGF grade up ...

Im usually 55-45 (Kill/Live ratio), i enjoy killing more than living

I voted Bruce Willis, I really enjoy fights, both living and killing.

Wow topazg, that is just a brutal sequence. Your problems all started at move 10, and just kept getting worse from there.

Dusk Eagle wrote:Wow topazg, that is just a brutal sequence. Your problems all started at move 10, and just kept getting worse from there.

For some reason, I thought to begin with I could connect in sente and had misread the liberties. Then, to make matters worse, I'd read bA3 towards the end as a shortage of liberties problem - I'd intended to play 22 at 23 and look at both attacking the group and the cut, but simply nothing worked. At least I gote sente for 24

Killing and living are both impossible.

...lately I seem to be a big rage machine on the go board, I can't keep myself from attempting to kill everything in sight. Every single game on KGS since I resurrected my account ended (or should have) by resignation. Admittedly, they're fast, but my slower in-person games have been the same. I'm still a stone (I'd like to think two but that's probably wishful thinking) underranked on KGS (recovering from a sleepy bad-tournament-result fueled losing streak), so right now I'm killing a lot more than I should be able to.