21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki

[Cassandra]

Hinoki Press books would probably be the lightest shape books. They tend to get lighter and lighter with time and usage as the binding deteriorates.

Japanese books tend to be smaller and have better binding. It doesn't need to be big.

That's true indeed.

But it seems that not so many people in Western countries are willing to pay a fair price for such a high-quality binding.

[Horibe]

Unlike the Ishida it is a two-volume-edition. Volume 1 covers all 3-4 Josekis.

A slight clarification here. If we think of the original Ishida, in Japanese, then this translation is like the Ishida, maintaining the two volume format.

The Ishi Ishida, and now the Kisiedo Ishida - made three volumes of the original two.

[PeterHB]

Hinoki Press books would probably be the lightest shape books. They tend to get lighter and lighter with time and usage as the binding deteriorates.

very droll. So true.

[DeaconJohn]

I already own the Ishida edition of this dictionary and I am trying to decide whether or not to buy the new (Takao) edition. I also own the excellent Nihon Kiin Handbook of Even Game Joseki, http://www.yutopian.com/go/bookeg/PAY36.html .

How does this work compare with the Nihon Kiin Handbook? How does it compare with Kogo's Joseki Dictionary? These works show that there have been significant advances in many of the most basic joseki since the 1977 Ishida edition. (http://waterfire.us/joseki.htm, either the December 2010 or the July 2011 edition)

Kiseido's review of the Takao edition says that it contains many new variations of the magic sword joseki and the large avalanche joseki. (This is not terribly encouraging since the magic sword and the large avavlance with their numerous variations are not really basic joseki.) But, how about new variations of the other old josekis? How about new josekis? (http://kiseidogoblog.wordpress.com/)

The Kisedo review says "Like the Ishida work, it thoroughly analyses the various components of josekis, such as tesujis and good style and good shape, and focusses in depth on such themes as securing momentum and building influence. Each joseki listed is backed up by numerous diagrams exploring alternative moves and mistakes", but, is this new material or just a rehash of the old material?

Does anybody have a URL for an English review of this book that is more informative than the Kiseido review? The Japanese edition of the new version has been out for a while. Are there any reviews of the Japanese version?

DeaconJohn

[gowan]

I already own the Ishida edition of this dictionary and I am trying to decide whether or not to buy the new (Takao) edition. I also own the excellent Nihon Kiin Handbook of Even Game Joseki, http://www.yutopian.com/go/bookeg/PAY36.html .

How does this work compare with the Nihon Kiin Handbook? How does it compare with Kogo's Joseki Dictionary? These works show that there have been significant advances in many of the most basic joseki since the 1977 Ishida edition. (http://waterfire.us/joseki.htm, either the December 2010 or the July 2011 edition)

Kiseido's review of the Takao edition says that it contains many new variations of the magic sword joseki and the large avalanche joseki. (This is not terribly encouraging since the magic sword and the large avavlance with their numerous variations are not really basic joseki.) But, how about new variations of the other old josekis? How about new josekis? (http://kiseidogoblog.wordpress.com/)

The Kisedo review says "Like the Ishida work, it thoroughly analyses the various components of josekis, such as tesujis and good style and good shape, and focusses in depth on such themes as securing momentum and building influence. Each joseki listed is backed up by numerous diagrams exploring alternative moves and mistakes", but, is this new material or just a rehash of the old material?

Does anybody have a URL for an English review of this book that is more informative than the Kiseido review? The Japanese edition of the new version has been out for a while. Are there any reviews of the Japanese version?

DeaconJohn

There are many variations called joseki in the Ishida books that are now considered advantageous for one side or the other. Also, the Ishida book (volume 3) is particularly weak on 4-4 point joseki and I would expect that the Takao book(s) have a lot more on that topic. There are probably many variations in the Takao book that are not in the Ishida book. The English version of Ishida's book dates from 35 to 40 years ago. The Japanese original was revised in the mid-1990's. I doubt that Takao's book will have much on "joseki" being experimented in current pro play. Such sequences are not yet "proven" as joseki.

As for Kogo's online dictionary, Eidogo and Josekipedia, they tend to have a lot of errors or give very little actual evaluation of the results of sequences of moves.

[Solomon]

My copy arrived today, can't wait to dig in to updated joseki goodness.

Bigger than I expected:


Plenty of text too:

[kirkmc]

That's a pretty big book.

It looks, however, that the binding is similar to that of Invincible, and that it won't stay open flat very easily. I almost wish they did hardcovers of these, as they do of Invincible.

[Solomon]

Reading the first chapter has already changed my Go immensely. In fact, the very first sentence in the chapter grabbed my attention:

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The small-knight approach move is the most severe approach move to the 3-4 stone.

I'm now a huge fan of the low approach (instead of despising it) and look forward to playing it much more often in my games with my newfound knowledge ready to be put into practice.

[judicata]

I haven't had time to read much of it, but I like the new binding/size. It lays flatter than almost any other go book I own (excluding my hardcover of Invincible and a large Chinese tsumego book).

[jdl]

That's a pretty big book.

It looks, however, that the binding is similar to that of Invincible, and that it won't stay open flat very easily. I almost wish they did hardcovers of these, as they do of Invincible.

Correct. It doesn't lay open unless you're in the middle of the book. It fits great in a cook book holder though.

[LokBuddha]

Can someone do a review for this book?

[jts]

Can someone do a review for this book?

I thought Araban's review sounded pretty decisive.

[snorri]

Reading the first chapter has already changed my Go immensely. In fact, the very first sentence in the chapter grabbed my attention:

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The small-knight approach move is the most severe approach move to the 3-4 stone.

I'm now a huge fan of the low approach (instead of despising it) and look forward to playing it much more often in my games with my newfound knowledge ready to be put into practice.

Interesting. In my old copy of Ishida, it says that's the most basic approach. It doesn't say anything about severity. Amazing how a little re-wording can change the meaning.

[Vesa]

Reading the first chapter has already changed my Go immensely. In fact, the very first sentence in the chapter grabbed my attention:

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$$ . , . . . . . , X . . |
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The small-knight approach move is the most severe approach move to the 3-4 stone.

I'm now a huge fan of the low approach (instead of despising it) and look forward to playing it much more often in my games with my newfound knowledge ready to be put into practice.

Interesting. In my old copy of Ishida, it says that's the most basic approach. It doesn't say anything about severity. Amazing how a little re-wording can change the meaning.

If it were Bob Terry, it would be "the most severe attack"

Cheers,
Vesa

[CardiffGo]

I am KGS 3k and have been very fortunate to have been asked by the British Go Association to review this book.

So far, I am immensely impressed by the information contained. It really looks in depth at joseki, explaining the meaning of the moves and why sub-joseki sequences fail.

But it could have had better diagram numbers. Rather than Diagram 1.2.4 for variation 4 of variation 2 of diagram 1, it simply uses consecutive numbers. So diagram 25 can follow from diagram 13, for example, but it would not be obvious.

There is also a diagram error as early as page 8.