Life In 19x19

Also just to add something else I thought of... just ask for rated game in the L19 room. Most of us are friendly.

Well I have to say that regardless of what happens on KGS, THIS forum is great!

I appreciate all the replies.

My recent experience was a disaster. I said "open to all", got a 20k?, who escaped. I resigned the game to end it (debated in the other thread!!), and was marked 25k?

I assumed it wouldn't take too long to rectify, especially as my opponent only had a provisional rank himself, but it's taken me a further 28 games to finally get back to 1d:

25*-20-15-16-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-5-4-3-2-3*-3-3-2-2-2*-2-2-2-1-1-1-1d

Marked stars are my losses. I spent most of that period sandbagging, but not intentially, and I don't feel particularly sad about it. As my opponents will _now_ be seen to have lost to a 1d, it doesn't hurt them, and it means I'm getting back to where I should be with no long term effects other than lots of games played.

Just play a 5k, a 2k, whatever, and get a rank any old how. You'll be up to 2d in no time.

I had a similar experience to topazg's. For awhile, I would get comments on my rank graph periodically, because it was basically a vertical line.

You can still kind of see it, but it's been awhile since I've played rated games with that account.

topazg wrote:Just play a 5k, a 2k, whatever, and get a rank any old how. You'll be up to 2d in no time.

Another trick I've seen mentioned is putting a note in your game posting like: "I am 2d. I'll give 4 stones to any 3k." There are plenty of 3ks out there willing to try to prove you wrong.

topazg wrote:My recent experience was a disaster. I said "open to all", got a 20k?, who escaped. I resigned the game to end it (debated in the other thread!!), and was marked 25k?

I don't disagree with your wanting to keep your record clear of unfinished games, but I think it would have taken fewer games to rank up if you had left it unfinished -- another interesting experiment perhaps

emeraldemon wrote:Of course I don't think I will change your mind, and I don't mind at all if you prefer Canadian, it's no skin off my nose But I will say that I prefer Japanese timing when given a choice. It's true that Canadian time offers more flexibility, but I think it also requires more clock management. I've had it happen with Canadian time that I look over and see that I only have 1 minute, but still need to play 10 moves, for example. Then suddenly I'm rushing to finish so I don't lose on time. Or conversely I may find I've come to 24 moves and only spent 5 minutes. If I'm aware of the clock, at least I can take those other 5 minutes to count, etc. But sometimes I blow right by and realize too late how much time I've lost.

Comparatively, the strategy for Japanese byo-yomi is very simple: think until the warning beeps, then play For me this means less worrying about the clock, so I prefer it. It may be that if I played Canadian more, I'd get better at it and maybe even come to prefer it. But maybe not.

Annnnnnnnd then there was Fischer time.

See, that wasn't so hard after all, now was it?!

cdybeijing wrote:

emeraldemon wrote:Of course I don't think I will change your mind, and I don't mind at all if you prefer Canadian, it's no skin off my nose But I will say that I prefer Japanese timing when given a choice. It's true that Canadian time offers more flexibility, but I think it also requires more clock management. I've had it happen with Canadian time that I look over and see that I only have 1 minute, but still need to play 10 moves, for example. Then suddenly I'm rushing to finish so I don't lose on time. Or conversely I may find I've come to 24 moves and only spent 5 minutes. If I'm aware of the clock, at least I can take those other 5 minutes to count, etc. But sometimes I blow right by and realize too late how much time I've lost.

Comparatively, the strategy for Japanese byo-yomi is very simple: think until the warning beeps, then play For me this means less worrying about the clock, so I prefer it. It may be that if I played Canadian more, I'd get better at it and maybe even come to prefer it. But maybe not.

Annnnnnnnd then there was Fischer time.

See, that wasn't so hard after all, now was it?!

I've never played a game on Fischer time, so I can't really say. KGS doesn't support it, and AGA tournaments never use it. DGS has it, but I don't consider that the same, as you're never really under time pressure.

emeraldemon wrote:

cdybeijing wrote:

emeraldemon wrote:Of course I don't think I will change your mind, and I don't mind at all if you prefer Canadian, it's no skin off my nose But I will say that I prefer Japanese timing when given a choice. It's true that Canadian time offers more flexibility, but I think it also requires more clock management. I've had it happen with Canadian time that I look over and see that I only have 1 minute, but still need to play 10 moves, for example. Then suddenly I'm rushing to finish so I don't lose on time. Or conversely I may find I've come to 24 moves and only spent 5 minutes. If I'm aware of the clock, at least I can take those other 5 minutes to count, etc. But sometimes I blow right by and realize too late how much time I've lost.

Comparatively, the strategy for Japanese byo-yomi is very simple: think until the warning beeps, then play For me this means less worrying about the clock, so I prefer it. It may be that if I played Canadian more, I'd get better at it and maybe even come to prefer it. But maybe not.

Annnnnnnnd then there was Fischer time.

See, that wasn't so hard after all, now was it?!

I've never played a game on Fischer time, so I can't really say. KGS doesn't support it, and AGA tournaments never use it. DGS has it, but I don't consider that the same, as you're never really under time pressure.

Yeah, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. As far as I know, no online go servers have Fischer time (yet). But it's the most popular timing method on most chess servers, and in my experience it is more suitable for go than it is for chess.

I have my own digital clock which I use for go games played live, and we always play Fischer despite the availability of byo-yomi.

DGS Fischer is different mainly in that it is capped, so that you can't increase your time beyond the original main time setting. But, generally when you are talking about a game that will take months to complete, timing system is relatively arbitrary.

I found the easiest way to get rated was to add a note to my game request: "Please help me get rated". I usually got a game within 5 minutes.

snorri wrote:

topazg wrote:Just play a 5k, a 2k, whatever, and get a rank any old how. You'll be up to 2d in no time.

Another trick I've seen mentioned is putting a note in your game posting like: "I am 2d. I'll give 4 stones to any 3k." There are plenty of 3ks out there willing to try to prove you wrong.

topazg wrote:My recent experience was a disaster. I said "open to all", got a 20k?, who escaped. I resigned the game to end it (debated in the other thread!!), and was marked 25k?

I assumed it wouldn't take too long to rectify, especially as my opponent only had a provisional rank himself, but it's taken me a further 28 games to finally get back to 1d:

25*-20-15-16-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-5-4-3-2-3*-3-3-2-2-2*-2-2-2-1-1-1-1d

Marked stars are my losses. I spent most of that period sandbagging, but not intentially, and I don't feel particularly sad about it. As my opponents will _now_ be seen to have lost to a 1d, it doesn't hurt them, and it means I'm getting back to where I should be with no long term effects other than lots of games played.

Just play a 5k, a 2k, whatever, and get a rank any old how. You'll be up to 2d in no time.

Well, that was awful, but you really can't complain - and you really are not - KGS absolutley does not approve of resigning a won game and KGS certainly displayed its disapproval, albeit shockingly dramitically.

Mr. Bates - Hang in there, I do not think you are going to find the aspects you like anywhere else. Please stop saying that 30 seconds byo yomi is "blitz". Very few will agree with you. I have no problem with your preference and no problem with you thinking it is too fast for you - but calling it "blitz" is going to make people think you are odd.

Also, when you chat for a game, simply give your time preference - dont put an accent on you wanting it to be slow. I am not a blitz fan, but my preference is faster than you and I probably play faster. I dont mind a relaxing game though - but if I suspect the opponent is actually going to use all of that time...well then I might be less inclined.

A lot of good suggestions here. You are certainly right that most people prefer faster games than you on KGS, but I know you are far from alone and I believe your biggest problem is not having a rank yet, not the time setting.

So bite the bullet, play someone weaker and get a win and a rank - then getting matches will be much easier.

And enjoy some what might be teaching games. Work on playing soundly and punishing properly - discipline that is good for your game in the long run.

Horibe wrote: Mr. Bates - Hang in there, I do not think you are going to find the aspects you like anywhere else. Please stop saying that 30 seconds byo yomi is "blitz". Very few will agree with you. I have no problem with your preference and no problem with you thinking it is too fast for you - but calling it "blitz" is going to make people think you are odd.

Then I am odd, too!

As I said, I'm new to this forum also. With that said, this wonderful thread has been "hi-jacked" a few times, so let me introduce another quasi-hijack...

Some strong player once told me that strong players think in terms of sequences of moves. In fact, I think he said that the term "move" means something different than the common meaning. My understanding is that this strong-player's-move means a sequence - so I'll call it an s-move for now.

When I watch the games of strong players on IGS I see this pattern of time usage very frequently:

think for a long time, then make a series of moves fairly quickly.

I know that this time use pattern is true for me. It takes me a while to determine a course of play, and the s-move to support it, and then once I've decided, I play a series of moves - an s-move - quickly. So to me, this seems natural, and the Canadian system seems more in keeping with this style than the Japanese system.

But, it seems that the Japanese style is very popular on KGS and in this thread. So my sincere question is this: using the Japanese system, how do you handle those times when some deep thought is required?

BertBates wrote:...
But, it seems that the Japanese style is very popular on KGS and in this thread. So my sincere question is this: using the Japanese system, how do you handle those times when some deep thought is required?

We rush the process: we trim decison trees too quickly, we make unwarranted assumptions, we overlook possible responses. And we bungle the sequence. Then we lose.