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Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:07 am
by fwiffo
This thread feels like a library. My past zen go games have been much more festive (they usually involved drinking). Are we not attracting many viewers because of the sheer number of games going on or because nothing exciting has happened yet? My game against topazg had a ton of commentary.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:50 am
by Marcus
Move 13
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:45 pm
by Nikolas73
fwiffo wrote: This thread feels like a library. My past zen go games have been much more festive (they usually involved drinking). Are we not attracting many viewers because of the sheer number of games going on or because nothing exciting has happened yet? My game against topazg had a ton of commentary.
It seems to me like we have been playing a rather peaceful "zen" game so far
.
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11I have to say this is getting a little difficult for me; it is interesting to plan a strategy for one side and then have to counter it on the next turn.
My thinking with this move is that White will respond around "A" or "B" - if B, Black still has J17 to play later. Black will also have a chance, after White's next move, to either attack White's top-right corner, expand the left side (E10?) or build the right area. White will start to develop a moyo, but it is still early in the game and Black can build large areas, too. This move also helps Black develop the right side; I think Black would be happy if White invaded the top-right at R17 and let Black build a wall.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:10 pm
by fwiffo
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11These points,
a -
g , are the moves that come to mind. Locally, responding at
a to start to connect back to the corner enclosure and take territory seems natural. But it's passive, and it doesn't really firmly connect back or take territory. Things are still open. Another territorial move,
b , is a natural follow-up to
. But it seems a bit slow at this point. It's big though.
There are possible invasion points for white at
c ,
d and
e .
makes the corner more attractive for white than it otherwise would be. I would have played the small-knight's enclosure here, even though it would put slightly less pressure on the white extension stone. The corner wouldn't be 100% secure, but it would be a much less attractive target.
It's worth noting that both marked white stones (
and
) were played by Harleqin, who is a six stones stronger than me. Both the large knight's enclosure, and the long extension strongly indicate a preference for large-scale, influence oriented development in this area. And making a box framework is completely natural here. I want to jump to
f to maximize the boxiness, but this close to black's stone, it feels too thin. But
g still makes a box framework, and looks pretty nice. White is first to take the game off the third and fourth line and start vertical development.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:20 am
by Harleqin
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11
The first time that it happened like I expected.
White now pretty much has to invade on the right, although one could imagine S4, too---I just feel that it is too slow. White needs to take the strange position of
into account. It may not be very active, but at least, the lower side is pretty strong now, so there is not much to fear for it when invading on the right.
I believe that
is tedomari (the last big point of this stage), which might also be an indication that things are running well for Black. If White had played
at O4, he would now have G3 as another big point.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:27 am
by fwiffo
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:20 pm
by judicata
I'm sort of surprised that this game had neither a tengen opening or mirror-go strategy, which only seems appropriate. Granted, mirror-go would have been boring for at least 50 moves. But the tengen opening, if you really wanted to experiment and have an interesting game...
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:39 pm
by dfan
$$Wcm10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10Both fwiffo and Harleqin disliked this move by Nikolas73, and I also disliked it when
padic played it in his Malkovich game . Coincidentally padic is also 6k; maybe this is a common mistake at that level?
Move 16
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:46 pm
by Nikolas73
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11
Okay, the major areas have been scoped out, it's time to do something!
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11After White 16 here, we can expect Black to defend at A, then White B. Then Black has a few options, but if he blocks at C White can run out and close in Black's corner, while building influence. Black will probably play to prevent that, allowing White to play at "c" and more or less settle there.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:54 pm
by fwiffo
Sorry for the delay; I've been busy and lost track of the fact that it was my move.
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11The two moves I took the most serious look at were
a and
b . If the marked black stone were one space closer to the corner (either
x ), as is more common, I would certainly play the kick at
b . But because it's looser, it leaves to much aji in the corner. Playing the iron pillar here takes territory firmly (it's a natural follow-up to the large knight extension) and still attacks the white stone strongly because it's already in a pincer.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:36 am
by Harleqin
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11
White is a bit in a tight spot here. I believe that the invasion would have been better at S15 (or perhaps S16, or R12).
The obvious move would be to jump out, but this does not put much pressure on Black. I hear Bill Spight's mantra "Jowa says, don't run."
Let's look at some alternatives:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WThis might be a viable alternative, but it still just produces a weakish white between two strong black groups.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WThis slide is too far, and it does not make shape.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WI can't see anything good coming from this.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WThis might be viable for quickly settling, but I do not like the shape of
.
Perhaps others see better plays, but I will go for the attachment. I believe that Black can only hane, and White can get either more space in the upper right side or dodge to the lower right side to maybe isolate some black stones.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:12 am
by fwiffo
Move 19
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:54 pm
by Nikolas73
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11
Hmm, this is getting difficult. I was not expecting Black 17, or White 18. Let's look at some options for Black:
$$Bcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11A: Black could push along the fourth line, but I feel there is not much influence to be gained here with White's L15 stone in place. I am also worried about Black's R6 stone getting separated in this variation, and Black will have almost no territory on the right side.
B (actual move): I think this is a good move. It separates White's two stones on the right side, and Black can take profit in at least one of those areas. Perhaps we will see this next:
$$Wcm18
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm18Black should be able to surround one of the two groups, depending on where White jumps out (as far as I can read, if White crosscuts, Black will get a similar result of attacking either of the two stones and taking territory on the right). I am not too concerned if White tries to attack the R6 stone later on; Black still has R3 or S4.
C: This is playable; it might be followed by White "B" and Black Q8. However, if this happens then White will almost definitely live on the right side while Black's group will be rather small (I could be wrong, this was a tough decision...).
D: This is similar to B, but gives White too many options and too much space to escape or attack Black's Q10 stone.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:06 am
by fwiffo
My life is all screwed up right at the moment, so it might be a day or two before I come up with a move. Sorry for the delay.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:07 am
by topazg
fwiffo wrote: My life is all screwed up right at the moment, so it might be a day or two before I come up with a move. Sorry for the delay.
Hope it isn't too serious and sorts itself out for you asap.
. 
. But it seems a bit slow at this point. It's big though.
makes the corner more attractive for white than it otherwise would be. I would have played the small-knight's enclosure here, even though it would put slightly less pressure on the white extension stone. The corner wouldn't be 100% secure, but it would be a much less attractive target.
and 
) were played by Harleqin, who is a six stones stronger than me. Both the large knight's enclosure, and the long extension strongly indicate a preference for large-scale, influence oriented development in this area. And making a box framework is completely natural here. I want to jump to f to maximize the boxiness, but this close to black's stone, it feels too thin. But g still makes a box framework, and looks pretty nice. White is first to take the game off the third and fourth line and start vertical development.
is tedomari (the last big point of this stage), which might also be an indication that things are running well for Black. If White had played 
.