Graded Go Problems vs Smartgo Kifu

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Mivo
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Re: Graded Go Problems vs Smartgo Kifu

Post by Mivo »

Jrs22 wrote:There were book and (old) software listings in the package and I immediately began considering what to buy next. After reading your post I instead spent some time off and on during the day playing 9x9 games on my iPad


I'm very familiar with buying Go books (and equipment) in the vain hope that it will make me a stronger player, as if by some magical force their mere sitting on my book shelf could somehow improve my skill! I think there was previous discussion here on the board where it was established that the quality and value of one's Go playing equipment is proportionally opposite to the player's Go skill. :)

It was all tongue-in-cheek, but I think this really is true often, though I believe it's simply a result of "older" people being more likely to put down a few hundred bucks when the enthusiasm strikes, and "older" people tending to improve at a slower pace. I do not believe that age is necessarily what causes it, but that it may be more closely related to the belief that age causes it; paired with some other factors, such as adult brains no longer being used to systematically learn vs. student brains that are constantly confronted with new material that needs to be processed and applied, but I have to reach dan first before I have any actual evidence for this theory!).

As for playing on the iPad: I'd recommend the brand-new "Champion Go HD" to you (the iPad version). Under the hoot there is the CrazyStone engine, which is one of the strongest and well-playing bots right now. But that's not why I recommend it. The reason is that you can win medals for all sorts of board-size, handicap and difficulty combinations. I feel this is a pretty nice, rewarding way of playing against the iPad without a huge amount of potential for frustration. It doesn't rate you, you don't get a rank that you can lose, and when you do beat a setting you haven't beaten before, you get one of the shiny medals that will sparkle at you whenever you look at your collection! There are 150 of them, and even if you falsely believe you're the worst possible Go player out there, you will definitely win some of them right from the start. Plus, it plays somewhat more human-like, though on 19x19 it favours moyo games (trying to get a huge center), though this isn't actually bad: teaches you how to get in there and stay alive.

After I straighten out some PC problems I can also try KGS.


I would go with KGS over IGS. There are more beginners and the atmosphere, in my subjective experience, is far better. KGS has a vivid community. One thing you need to mentally prepare yourself for is that at beginner levels you will be confronted with a wildly varying range of skill levels. In addition you'll encounter escapers and sandbaggers, both of which get more rare as you get closer to 10k and below.

An escaper is someone who leaves before the game is finished and scored, usually when they lose. Annoying, but offers a chance to develop a mindset that playing is more important than the result. A sandbagger is someone who is much stronger than they pretend to be and who gets a kick out destroying weaker players. Also annoying, mostly because of the damage it can do to the already low confidence in one's playing strength, but nevertheless a chance to develop another mindset: "Thanks for the free teaching game!". :)

But all of this aside: Go and play. If you're like me, you'll never feel ready. You'll find a dozen reasons what you need to do first before you'll try. Hey, you could wait until December 1st so you can track your progress more easily. It's all self-deception. :) Just play, remember that KGS lets you have more than one account (so you can start over any time -- not that you need to, but maybe knowing this takes some of the edge off), you will lose many games (even great players do!), but you will also win some. And when you're a dan player later on, will it really matter how your beginner games went?

Play and have fun. :) The anxiety gets better after a while -- the more often you do it. Just like any other form of anxiety, really! You only strengthen it if you give in to it.
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Re: Graded Go Problems vs Smartgo Kifu

Post by Jrs22 »

Mivo - your comment about 'aging' brains reminds me of something we used to talk about a gazillion years ago when I was a math grad student. It had to do with when people became too old to be creative or make new discoveries in their field: mathematicians creative life was over at 30, physical scientists at 40, but artists and writers could just keep plugging away! Maybe that's why I left with a masters instead of a phd, and went to art school for a while before getting a 'real' job.

Anyway, the Graded Go Problems for Beginner is useful beginning with volume 1. The problem sets in the iPad and iPhone programs have little or no commentary - eg a problem stated as 'find the best move' with no hints and no explanation of why one sequence is better than another, which can be hard for me to figure out if no stones are captured or placed in Atari. The book providing the right answer and a commentary on an incorrect alternative is thought provoking. One early problem had an obvious solution if I was just trying to answer the specific question, but if I looked at it as a game then there were alternatives that would catch my eye if I was moving quickly.
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Re: Graded Go Problems vs Smartgo Kifu

Post by judicata »

Jrs22 wrote:Anyway, the Graded Go Problems for Beginner is useful beginning with volume 1. The problem sets in the iPad and iPhone programs have little or no commentary - eg a problem stated as 'find the best move' with no hints and no explanation of why one sequence is better than another, which can be hard for me to figure out if no stones are captured or placed in Atari.


I'll preempt the inevitable comment that "you don't have comments to guide you in a real game." :) I agree with you, and try to do a mix of problems with and without comments or "hints." Although I haven't taken the time to search, I'm pretty sure there was a discussion about this topic during which someone noted that Japanese and/or Chinese problem books nearly always have "hints." It is a pedagogical debate--as I mentioned, I find merit in both, so I do both sorts of problems.
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