Twitchy's Corner

Create a study plan, track your progress and hold yourself accountable.
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Twitchy Go
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Re: Twitchy's Corner

Post by Twitchy Go »

Well I've just finished reading through Attack and Defense, which was a very interesting. And I've been working on 1001 L&D problems.

I often go to the local Go club Mondays and Wednesdays. And yesterday I played one heckuva game with another club goer. We are approximately the same rank and stayed on that single game from 7:15 to 10:30. I lost by 0.5 points after Komi was added to my score. Of course it was mostly my fault that I lost. I, as usual, kept trying what looked like fun. More so then what was going to guarantee a win. :lol:

Also I started a Malkovitch game with Wanderling(10k) so we'll see how that goes.
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Twitchy Go
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Re: Twitchy's Corner

Post by Twitchy Go »

Went to the local Go club today, and got to play a great game! My opponent for the evening is a 9k on IGS(what would that translate to roughly on kgs? He thought 6k.) Anyway he graciously agreed to play an even game with me :bow:
His initial proffered set up was a 3 stone handi... but I don't think he'll give me that anymore :lol:
I have felt really great about the last few games I've played. I think I've definitely moved up a stone.. but can't verify because I haven't had KGS time.Pretty slow game so we had thinking time
I would really appreciate some comments on this one. . Regardless, I would hope it will prove an interesting match to all who take the time to flip through the kifu!
Some thoughts on the game.
27:I feel like 27 was necessary so that my wall didn't go to waste.. W 28 was painful though.
36: Come to find out this is a really nasty endgame move prep. W large knight move to the first line later.
49: the exchange of B49 W50 seems bad. Connecting at W50 might have been better for my move.
51: if i tried to stop the push it seemed like it would just get messier. I decide to take the time to secure my right group. That let me focus on my top group after he pushed though. This is broken shape correct? Or is that not the case when your groups should be fine?
58: The gote block(preventing the reduction at 108ish) would have been very big for me. Knowing about it now there are quite a few moves from now on I'd trade for it. The corner invasion was a good idea before blocking though. Live in the corner and then block and his extension down just prompted me to make territory on both sides!
108: I am currently in the "Oh boy a Ko!! I'm a go for it" stage. Turns out my ko threats were wimpy(ish)
114: Looking at it now, I think the Ko was bigger. Him connecting up that peice is a problem. But perhaps not a big one. Should have ignore the threat
181: I learned my lesson about this move :lol:
246: The game losing move
255: Didn't realize this could be a ko until he played into the shape. If he had dealt with the ko threats first I would have lost.
261: Wasted a ko threat perhaps

After noticing it was not in the .sgf
Komi was 6.5
B won by 1.5
Attachments
game with KP.sgf
(2.17 KiB) Downloaded 966 times
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Basics. Basic shapes. Broken (Fractured) shapes.
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Re: Twitchy's Corner

Post by Twitchy Go »

@edlee
Thank you Edlee.
Well that sequence in the upper right became broken shape a lot sooner than I had thought. Definitely something to look for.

I really didn’t want him cramping my extension, which is why I played 19 as a counter pincer. But a and b do indeed seem to be miai. I’ll try to remember to look for that in the future.

The two local vital points are also huge(27 and 23). Those always seem less important… well until I’m NOT the one with a stone on them.

A question on broken shape. While perhaps not at W12, definitely after W50. Trying to keep W from pushing through would have gotten dangerous. Was solidifying my group on the right while he pushed through a good way to manage the damage from the broken shape?
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Post by EdLee »

Twitchy Go wrote:Trying to keep W from pushing through would have gotten dangerous.
No, you must block W, even if you die. If you die, it's not because you block W, it's because of earlier mistakes.
Right now you want to learn to recognize broken shapes (just like ataris). That's a first step.
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Twitchy Go
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Re: Twitchy's Corner

Post by Twitchy Go »

@edlee
Fair enough assertion.

A follow up question. If you had two groups that were undoubtedly alive and your opponent cuts inbetween them. Would that still be broken shape?
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Post by EdLee »

Twitchy Go wrote:If you had two groups that were undoubtedly alive and your opponent cuts inbetween them. Would that still be broken shape?
Broken shape is not about the life-and-death status of the groups involved. :)
Also, a cut is not the same thing as a broken shape. :)

Ancient Go proverb: don't cut two live groups. So if your opponent cuts between two live groups,
his reason can not be to attack either one; it must be for other purposes.
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Re: Twitchy's Corner

Post by jts »

Twitchy Go wrote:@edlee
Fair enough assertion.

A follow up question. If you had two groups that were undoubtedly alive and your opponent cuts inbetween them. Would that still be broken shape?

You would still call it broken shape. Whether it's bad or not is another question. Certainly knowing that both of the separated groups are 100% alive removes a major concern, but there are others.

1. Are you really, truly 100% sure they're alive? :-)
2. What about all the stones that are hanging off your two live groups - are they all completely connected after your shape is broken?
3. What about the enemy's groups - were they both completely alive? If he broke your shape he may have connected two groups that would have been cut otherwise, and might have been separately weak or dead.
4. When he breaks your shape, is he playing moves on dame or breaking into your territory? When you get enemy stones reducing your territory you can block, and when you have stones running around inside your territory you can kill, but when he breaks your shape, abandon all hope.
5. Did he create aji or cutting points in sente?
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Post by EdLee »

Twitchy Go wrote:If you had two groups that were undoubtedly alive and your opponent cuts inbetween them. Would that still be broken shape?
Follow-up:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . O O O . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . O . O . . . X X X . .
$$ . . . . . O . O . . X . X . .
$$ . . . . . O O O . X . X . . .
$$ . . . . . . . 3 2 X X X . . .
$$ . . . . X X X X 1 . . . . . .
$$ . . . . X . X . O O O . . . .
$$ . . . X . X . . O . O . . . .
$$ . . . X X X . . . O . O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . O O O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Above: there is no broken shape, and :w1:, :b2:, :w3: are all passes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . a . . a . . . . . a . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . b . . . . . .
$$ . . . . X X X X 1 X X X X . .
$$ . . . . X . X . O . X . X . .
$$ . . . X . X . . O . . X . X .
$$ . . . X X X . . O . . X X X .
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . .[/go]
For the second case, it depends on whether the (a) areas are important to Black.
If yes, then B should block at (b); otherwise W pushes through at (b) -- broken shape.
If no, and W still pushes through at (b) -- yes, it is locally a broken shape -- but if the result is not bad for B, then it's OK.
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Twitchy Go
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Re: Twitchy's Corner

Post by Twitchy Go »

Thank you both for the qualifiers. It is helping me to understand the broken shape concept. What had been confusing me was that it seemed as though if your fine with your opponent pushing through you can get at least a few free moves out of it which can be worth a good bit. It is bad then to create broken shape without realizing that will be the result, and while not great, it can be acceptable to consiously allow the shape to be broken if its not horrible locally and you can get something out of it.

Ignoring all of W extra moves :)
If W wants to push through. Both his groups are strong. And with two huge walls so close to each other. Neither side can make any territory out of a. Thereforing playing somewhere else instead of b would be good here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ . . . . . O . O . . O . O . .
$$ . . . . O O O O O O O O O O .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . a . . a . . . . . a . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . b . . . . . .
$$ . . . . X X X X 1 X X X X . .
$$ . . . . X . X . O . X . X . .
$$ . . . X . X X . O . . X . X .
$$ . . . X X X . . O . . X X X .
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O O O O O . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O . O . O . . . .[/go]
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Re: Twitchy's Corner

Post by Boidhre »

Just a point to see if my thinking is wrong: To me white's 1 there looks fairly pointless. Why cut two live groups? White's group on top is alive so it doesn't need to be connected etc.
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Twitchy Go
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Re: Twitchy's Corner

Post by Twitchy Go »

Boidhre wrote:Just a point to see if my thinking is wrong: To me white's 1 there looks fairly pointless. Why cut two live groups? White's group on top is alive so it doesn't need to be connected etc.


You are correct, at least as I understand it. The discussion is on broken shape, and I think I created(well edited) a diagram where broken shape is inconsequential. That was the idea at least.
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Post by EdLee »

Twitchy Go wrote:Thereforing playing somewhere else instead of b would be good here?
Yes. :)
Twitchy Go wrote:to understand the broken shape concept.
Continue to play, study, and review. :)
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Post by EdLee »

Boidhre,
Twitchy Go wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ . . . . . O x O . . O y O . .
$$ . . . . O O O O O O O O O O .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . X X X X 1 X X X X . .
$$ . . . . X . X . O . X . X . .
$$ . . . X . X . . O . . X . X .
$$ . . . X X X . . O . . X X X .
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O O O O O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O . O . O . . . .[/go]
Boidhre wrote:White's group on top is alive...
Very close, but not 100% -- x and y are not real eyes yet. :) Baby edit:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . O O . . . . O O . .
$$ . . . . . O . O . . O . O . .
$$ . . . . . O O O O O O O O . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . X X X X 1 X X X X . .
$$ . . . . X . X . O . X . X . .
$$ . . . X . X . . O . . X . X .
$$ . . . X X X . . O . . X X X .
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O O O O O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O . O . O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . O O O . . . . .[/go]
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Boidhre
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Re:

Post by Boidhre »

EdLee wrote:Boidhre,
Twitchy Go wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ . . . . . O x O . . O y O . .
$$ . . . . O O O O O O O O O O .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . X X X X 1 X X X X . .
$$ . . . . X . X . O . X . X . .
$$ . . . X . X . . O . . X . X .
$$ . . . X X X . . O . . X X X .
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O O O O O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O . O . O . . . .[/go]
Boidhre wrote:White's group on top is alive...
Very close, but not 100% -- x and y are not real eyes yet. :) Baby edit:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . O O . . . . O O . .
$$ . . . . . O . O . . O . O . .
$$ . . . . . O O O O O O O O . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . X X X X 1 X X X X . .
$$ . . . . X . X . O . X . X . .
$$ . . . X . X . . O . . X . X .
$$ . . . X X X . . O . . X X X .
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O O O O O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . O . O . O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . O O O . . . . .[/go]


True. I'm blind. :)
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