Do you "like" the Iwamoto Go Centers?

[SoDesuNe]

Simple rules: don't put bank account numbers there, or credit card info, stuff like that.
Make one with fake name (or real name, your name is not a secret, I guess), fake address, fake BD, and nothing to worry about. They can share this data all they want. And you still can safely use Facebook, make connections, find people, 'like' things, and so on.

Even more simple: Don't have the hassle in the first place : )

What 'hassle'? You create an account, takes 20 sec or so... and then you can use it.
If you see no reason to use, its a different story.

But complaining about how much 'hassle' it is or how you are afraid of bad 'security' - it is just missing the point, I think.

I know from experience that this discussion could go on forever ^^ So yeah, I see no reason to use it.

[skydyr]

Which is only an issue if you put up non-public info on there to start with.

Exactly.
Simple rules: don't put bank account numbers there, or credit card info, stuff like that.
Make one with fake name (or real name, your name is not a secret, I guess), fake address, fake BD, and nothing to worry about. They can share this data all they want. And you still can safely use Facebook, make connections, find people, 'like' things, and so on.

I heard about this 'security' issue plenty of times, but this is so easily circumvented than I think there must be something more to it. Like: its cool and macho to go against what everybody else does, something like that. Just curious...

The problem is when other people start posting things about you that you don't want public but are now irrevocably linked to your account without your consent.

[Bantari]

Which is only an issue if you put up non-public info on there to start with.

Exactly.
Simple rules: don't put bank account numbers there, or credit card info, stuff like that.
Make one with fake name (or real name, your name is not a secret, I guess), fake address, fake BD, and nothing to worry about. They can share this data all they want. And you still can safely use Facebook, make connections, find people, 'like' things, and so on.

I heard about this 'security' issue plenty of times, but this is so easily circumvented than I think there must be something more to it. Like: its cool and macho to go against what everybody else does, something like that. Just curious...

The problem is when other people start posting things about you that you don't want public but are now irrevocably linked to your account without your consent.

If you put a fake name, what does it matter? Your friends know who you are, and its probably them who posted the things about you anyways, but otherwise it is probably meaningless, no? Plus - why would people post such stuff?

[skydyr]

The problem is when other people start posting things about you that you don't want public but are now irrevocably linked to your account without your consent.

If you put a fake name, what does it matter? Your friends know who you are, and its probably them who posted the things about you anyways, but otherwise it is probably meaningless, no? Plus - why would people post such stuff?

I assume because they don't think about it. I know quite a few people who have a habit of taking pictures of activities with their cameras and then going through and tagging everyone in the photo, for example.

[Bonobo]

[..] tagging everyone in the photo

I simply disabled that.

But I agree that FB Is Bad. As is the whole net. Wherever on the net you say something, you could just as well shout it across the marketplace. This has to be known.

[Boidhre]

I assume because they don't think about it. I know quite a few people who have a habit of taking pictures of activities with their cameras and then going through and tagging everyone in the photo, for example.

You can turn that off. You can also just decide who can see those tags if I remember correctly if you don't mind people on your friends list seeing photos of you.


Of course, being old enough that my stupidly drunk doing idiotic crap college party days came quite a while before Facebook and smartphones appeared I'm a tad biased regarding photos of me appearing up online.

[Bantari]

[..] tagging everyone in the photo

I just disabled that.

But I agree that FB Is Bad. As is the whole net. Wherever on the net you say something, you could just as well shout it across the marketplace. This has to be known.

I agree, and this is sort-of my point. People can say bad things about you everywhere, or disclose info about you anywhere - and its all searchable and easy to find. I don't really see FB as being any worse or better at it than, say, L19. Or Google+, or Twitter, or Yelp, or whatever. FB its a data mining outfit, which is based on people's vanity and the need to share every detail about their personal lives... but this can be easily circumvented by personal restraint and/or being careful - again, same as everywhere else on the web. Other than this, it also has its positive sides, and good things it can be used for (as this thread indicates) and to reject it for a murky reason like that (i.e. 'security problems') which is easily circumvented is strange.

Well, anyways, this is pretty much it.
Don't want to derail this thread even more. Apologies.

[hyperpape]

Actually, Facebook goes to substantial efforts to track your activity when you're not on Facebook. In the past, even logging out didn't remove their tracking (though I think that might have been fixed).

More importantly to me, any given Facebook page is likely to be invisible to people who are not on Facebook. Apps (including newspapers) on Facebook often do not post real links to someone's timeline, but redirects that direct you to their Facebook app before rerouting you to their web page. They are, in effect, attempting to create a parallel web that doesn't participate in the actual web that we already have.

[Bonobo]

Actually, Facebook goes to substantial efforts to track your activity when you're not on Facebook. In the past, even logging out didn't remove their tracking (though I think that might have been fixed).

True. And AFAIK it’s not fixed because that would be “broken” from FB’s perspective

But there are plugins that help … e.g. Ghostery and Disconnect.

More importantly to me, any given Facebook page is likely to be invisible to people who are not on Facebook. Apps (including newspapers) on Facebook often do not post real links to someone's timeline, but redirects that direct you to their Facebook app before rerouting you to their web page. They are, in effect, attempting to create a parallel web that doesn't participate in the actual web that we already have.

Correct.

I don’t use such apps and try never to link to pages that “need” such apps.

And yes, FB’s an cad. But I think I said that already. Always be careful when dealing with assholes. Like the internet, it is like the dark forest. And scoundrels and wolves wait for Little Red Riding Hoods. But this is no news. Well, not to me, that is.

[Boidhre]

Actually, Facebook goes to substantial efforts to track your activity when you're not on Facebook. In the past, even logging out didn't remove their tracking (though I think that might have been fixed).

Wasn't most of the issue with that being with other websites integrating widgets that allowed you to "share through Facebook" but due to the way it was coded meant that Facebook were getting a log of you loading up this page if you had FB cookies regardless of whether you clicked this widget or not? Logging out of Facebook didn't get rid of the particular cookie used for this if I remember correctly. It wasn't an issue on sites that didn't use this widget though.

[hyperpape]

Yup, it was those like buttons, and you're right that Facebook certainly saw this as a feature, so long as users didn't complain too much.

I'm not particularly paranoid--I use Facebook (I was in college back in 2005, so that's pretty much a given), and I don't even always use it from incognito mode, so I'm leaking information. Similarly, I haven't switched from Google to DuckDuckGo, though I've been tempted. But I certainly don't love many of the things Facebook has done.

[Bantari]

Actually, Facebook goes to substantial efforts to track your activity when you're not on Facebook. In the past, even logging out didn't remove their tracking (though I think that might have been fixed).

Not to be difficult about it (and not trolling, I swear!), but that also always puzzled me. My thinking is: so what?

For example:
So I go to L19, then maybe SL, then read a friend's blog, and then do some work-related browsing, then check out the new iPad mini... Its all tied up to a fake name and address I gave to FB (if I cared to do that, which I don't.) Why do I care that FB is 'tracking' that? I mean - I hear similar things about Google and other services and have never really seen a problem with that.

FB is harvesting data to look for trends, not to have a dossier on you (or me) personally - I don't think they really care about you (or me) that much. But even if they did, again: so what? Really... So they know you read L19 every day. So what?

At the end of the line, there is a chain-store owner getting some info that in this particular area people are more likely to buy tennis shoes, or something. Or maybe a better idea where to open the next sushi house. Or something. Which can actually benefit me - the selection of things which interest me in my neighborhood might get better. Or maybe the prices get higher, or maybe both... whatever. Life goes on.

I honestly don't get it.

In my family we are also divided on this issue. A few people are scared of FB and refuse to even open an account, and a few others are avid users. Some, like myself, just have an account but do nothing much with it. And I see no difference for those people who refuse FB vs. those who use it a lot - there is no FBI on anybody's doorstep, their browsing experience is no different than mine, they don't get any less spam than I do, their computers don't get any less viruses, and so on... And nobody can really explain to me why they are so scared of FB beyond the generic 'security' argument (which they cannot expand on or delve into) or the above-mentioned 'tracking' (of which any personally damaging consequences are also unclear to me.)

And the funny thing is - some of those who refuse FB themselves - they log into my account more than I do myself - just to see what their friends are up to, or who posted cool pics from their recent vacations, or what they dressed their babies for Halloween as. I find it irritating, I always say: why not get your own account and stop bothering me? But they go in hushed tones: no no, it is too dangerous, the *security* issues, and they they *track* you... no way! When I try to press for more explanation, they just look at me strangely and walk away. And next week they absolutely *need* to log in to my FB account again.

So yeah - to repeat myself - I honestly don't get it.

[quantumf]

Bantari, knowledge is power. And many people are reluctant to give that power to companies or organizations they have no reason to trust. Perhaps the power is very low - your examples suggest that it is. But I would guess that many people browse sites other than L19, sites that they wouldn't necessarily be comfortable sharing with their boss/spouse/whatever. Perhaps a porn site. Perhaps a Silk Road. But it's deeper or more subtle than that. Perhaps you browsed a Chinese dissident site. Perhaps this can be used against you when you apply for a Chinese visa. The point is that people don't want to have to second guess how their activities are potentially going to be used against them, partly because its impossible to know how this information could be used, and partly a general reluctance to live in this sort of monitored existence.

[SoDesuNe]

Bantari
The I Have Nothing to Hide argument is so old that you can freely enter these five words into your search engine of choice and find numerous articles explaining to you, why privacy matters.

[Boidhre]

Actually, Facebook goes to substantial efforts to track your activity when you're not on Facebook. In the past, even logging out didn't remove their tracking (though I think that might have been fixed).

Not to be difficult about it (and not trolling, I swear!), but that also always puzzled me. My thinking is: so what?

Consent is nice.