#177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:59 am

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:39 pm

The Intrepid wrote:A Daring Challenge to the Spectators and Go Pro-wannabes:
Have you ever watched a basketball game and said to yourself: "man, if they paid me this much money, I'd play just as well as the lot of them"? If so, do you think the same applies to Go? Do you think, if someone handed you a million bucks, you could tenuki as hard as Lee Changho does and still get away with it? Could a large monetary reward infuse you with the will and the skill to find a lengthy string of tesujis to save a group that by right and by law should be dead?

Well, here's the thing: I don't have jack to give you. Nevertheless, you could hope to get something just as valuable instead: the love and respect of legions of lifein19x19.com forum visitors! All you need to do is find an ironclad way to make the marked Black group live (or at least a part of it) after White builds an impenetrable wall on the outside and plays at O15. So far, my attempts have failed. (Man, I wish somebody would infuse me with a million bucks to help with the task!) Can you do better?

$$Wc Black to live
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . B . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X X X O . O B . . . B . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X O B . . Q . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . B . B B O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . B . . . B . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . B O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O O O O O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black to live $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . B . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O B . . . B . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O B . . Q . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . B . B B O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . B . . . B . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . B O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . O O O O O O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My challenge did not generate quite the enthusiasm I was hoping for. Tough crowd, man, tough crowd. Still, two responses is better than nothing.

The reason I seek to analyze the status of the top group now is that I worry that the opportunity to do so might never actually arise in the game. The board position might change or Black might resign if one of the other two weak groups dies first.

In any case, I took another look at the proposed position. I still can’t make the black group live. The problem is that either the White stone at the middle of Black’s group gets connected to its brethren or else Black does not get enough time to form a second eye. For instance, suppose Black plays as follows to try to form a second eye on the edge of the board:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc One try for Black $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . 2 5 . . 3 4 . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O 1 X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . O O O O O O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even though it may seem as if Black has succeeded in his goal, White has the following tesuji, which threatens to capture the marked Black stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O B . 6 O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . O O O O O O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Black attempts to prevent this by playing at M15, White proceeds as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm7 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X 3 . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X 1 O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . 2 X 4 X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O . . 5 6 7 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . 8 X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . O O O O O O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White stones escape.

If it is true, as I believe, that the top Black group is dead in this scenario, the next question is how many of these additional White stones on the outside are actually needed to render the Black group dead. I am going to try to figure this out soon.

Keeping in mind what I’ve just discussed above and returning to the actual position in the game, an ideal (from my perspective) development of the game would be that uranther survives on the bottom, but finds himself forced to make a mad dash for the center with his right group. As it runs, I get to place all the right stones in the center and, then, unexpectedly (from uranther’s point of view) I play an innocently looking move at K13, threatening his top group. Then, uranther ignores the move, thinking he got off lightly, but O15 follows and his whole top group dies. This would be an awesome way to end this game! I can hope!

uranther · Post by **uranther** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:53 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . 6 X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White seals off the center from this side and black still has to settle. The best I can do is extend to gain what territory I can. That White O3 stone still has a lot of aji. I will probably end in gote here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O 2 X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . 3 4 . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 5 6 . . . 8 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My strategy after this group lives is to help out my Q7 group and start coming into the center before White makes that all his territory.

I would like to activate the K13 cut at the most advantageous time. I think I am still okay at this point in the game.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:25 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . 6 X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

uranther’s last move is a horrific blunder. He will now have to work miracles to save his bottom group. Even if he somehow does so, White will receive a far greater compensation in return than the one White would have gotten if Black played R2 instead. After BR2, which is sente, I would expect something like this to happen (I did not spend much time reading all this, so some moves may not be optimal):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . 3 . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

followed by something akin to:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm9 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O 3 2 X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . 5 X 1 4 O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 8 7 X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm17 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 5 O X . c . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X C X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 X 4 . 2 X O C O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I did not analyze the resulting position too deeply, so I am not sure if White can get away with W21 or if White needs to play at a, b, or c instead. Regardless, the outcome of this long variation is that Black lives on the bottom--reducing White’s territory by about 30 points and gaining around 8 points of territory. However, White gets to kill Black’s group on the right in exchange and also gets the bottom right corner. This is worth about 35-40 points. In addition to this, Black bottom group gets contained inside while White receives a strong wall on the outside. As a result, White can hope to get many points in the center (especially if W21 is possible). Therefore, the trade is clearly favorable for White.

Yet, this would still have been a far better outcome than what Black can hope to get now. After WQ2, if Black group is to get life, it will have to be much further to the left than before (somewhere in the shaded area).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . 6 X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . ? ? ? ? ? O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In turn, this means that White would get an even longer and even stronger wall on the outside.

Black is in big trouble.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:54 pm

Incidentally, returning to the variation I suggested in the previous comment, White does not benefit from playing W9:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . 3 . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In response, Black should first exchange 10 for 11 and then play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 4 O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O 3 X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . 2 O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 X . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Next, depending on White's response, Black plays:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm15 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X X . . O 2 X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O C O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm15 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X X . . O 1 X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X C X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and White cannot kill Black.

uranther · Post by **uranther** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:15 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I am disappointed I didn't look at the position longer to consider my last move. I almost played :b2:

, but hesitated and wondered if there was a better move. After a few days of sitting on it, I still like this move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Other moves I considered $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . d X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . c b . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . j . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I wrote some explanations on Black a-d but lost them... Basically, I want to tenuki, while playing away from the bottom right group and helping this Q7 group. My intent is to attack White's tengen stone and reduce the center.

Black j invades, pincers, and threatens to connect to the bottom right black group. However, I think White will just ignore this move and play near :b2:

in order to seal off the center! I will play this move later; if White blocks at K3, I will block at D3. If White invades san-san, I think the attachment at K3 will work to connect my groups (it's dicey).

Black's a-d are not as elegant as :b2:

, but it still has a tesuji (?) which can be used against it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc White tesuji (?) against . Black's right side group can still make eyes $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . 8 7 O 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X 5 6 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 4 . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 2 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 B . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:36 pm

Now I see why uranther took such a long time to make his move.

In all honesty, I think his choice to abandon the bottom group is correct. I do not see a way for him to save it (although, I'll recheck the variations before making my next move). Therefore, it is much better to leave these stones as aji and try to rescue the other weak groups--specifically, the one on the right. I'll think carefully about my next move, but the obvious move to make is O10. In fact, I wonder why uranther didn't play there himself. Perhaps he does not see the variation I mentioned earlier:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm8 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . 3 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 1 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The game is about to intensify.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:00 am

I am facing a difficult decision: take a safe and straightforward victory or try to win in a spectacular fashion by an obscene margin of points.

Specifically, I am pondering whether to play at “a” or at “b”:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm8 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . b O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . a . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

By playing at “a,” White would achieve the following:
1. render Black’s bottom group dead (which it isn’t yet, as is shown below);
2. secure White’s bottom territory, denying Black any invasions therein;
3. make invasions into Black’s left moyo very attractive, given that White would not need to fear increasing Black’s influence and the subsequent counter-invasion which could have followed without “a.”

Since Black still needs one more move to secure his group on the right, White would retain sente after playing “a.” Thus, White could then immediately invade on the left, reducing Black’s potential territory by a significant amount. As such, Black would find himself significantly behind on points. Without large weak White groups to attack and without easy ways to encircle additional territory, Black would find it exceedingly difficult to defeat White.

In other words, “a” leads to a position I believe I can win fairly easily. However, a greedy man always wants more!

Why win by 10 points when one can hope to win by 60+ points instead?

For this reason, I am pondering to play at “b.” By playing there, White would seek to achieve greatness, immortality, and maybe even some fangirls. Whether I play "b" or not will depend, largely, on whether Black can play N10 in response to O10:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm9 Can Black play this? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . 2 1 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and on whether, if Black has to play at O9, White’s 11 is sente or not:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm9 Sente? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . 3 1 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The problem is that, if Black gets away with tenuki-ing, Black can still save his group on the bottom. Specifically, I am unable to kill Black in either of the following variations:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . 4 O 1 X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . 3 . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 2 O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . 5 O 1 X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . 3 4 . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Naturally, if Black gets to save all of his three weak groups, White will be in a totally hopeless situation.

Time for some more reading :study:

.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:05 pm

Returning to the mystery that is butter tea, the reason it is important to talk about this is that Go and butter tea are alike. They both consist of parts that are polar opposites of each other. They shouldn’t mix but somehow do anyway. White and black stones, yin and yang, butter and tea--it’s all the same, just about. Therefore, by understanding butter tea, we can hope to get a better understanding of Go, as well.

With this in mind, let’s try to fathom how tea is able to dissolve its polar opposite. As discussed previously, the physical properties of the substances suggest they should not mix. Yet, they seemingly do. One theory (and others will be considered in the future, as well) is that the tea’s high temperature is what enables tea to dissolve butter.

This theory can be applied to Go: if you need to make a number of stones of the opposite color disappear, “heat up” the position on the board. Throw in some sacrifices, make some crazy tesujis, and--if the temperature on the board rises high enough--the opponent’s stones may very well dissolve, as if they were never even there.

Now, back to the game. My move is the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm8 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . 2 . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The explanation for the move will be provided below shortly.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:46 am

Comments regarding :w9:

If I played at O10 and Black responded at O9, then I do believe that N10 would be sente. A move such as O7 would be hard to deal with if Black tenuki-ed:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm8 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . 4 2 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That's the good news. The bad news is that Black can play at N10 himself. The problem is, once again, the aforementioned squeeze play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm8 is not possible, else $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . 9 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . 3 2 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 X 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Although I could play O10 to see if uranther responded correctly, my goal is to make optimal moves at all times. If uranther responded incorrectly, he would likely take a loss (possibly a substantial one). However, a correct move by him would mean a slight loss for me (he gets to place a stone in the center and he might eventually get to capture the cutting stones, and it's better to sacrifice 2 stones than 3, etc.). Such overplays are warranted when one is behind in a game and requires a mistake by the opponent to win. This is not the case in the current position.

Thus, if O10 does not promise to kill a large group, it is imperative for me to prevent Black's bottom group from making life (which, as I mentioned in a previous post, is still possible). Black chose to abandon the bottom group in favor of saving the group on the right. Thus, I better make sure to kill the abandoned group--and :w9:

at h4 accomplishes that (alongside serving all the other functions listed previously).

Now, with White having killed the bottom group, Black may need to worry about White playing O10 sooner or later. The question is, however, whether it is bigger for Black to play O10 straight away or to take countermeasures against White's invasions into Black's moyo on the left beforehand. I am currently looking at the various invasions I can make there, so I will write about this after uranther's next move (unless he plays something unexpected).

Before concluding these comments, I should say that White needs to watch out for the aji which the dead Black stones at the bottom still have. Of particular note is the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 2 O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 O O 1 X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O 4 X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

uranther · Post by **uranther** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm8 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . 2 . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . 3 . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess White's move shows that there was miai in the last position, although I didn't think of it that way. When I saw this move, I wondered if I should have played below :w9:

like I mentioned before. Which side is more important?

Regardless, White has taken some nice territory on the bottom side. I will secure some of my own with :black:

D3.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm8 Some moves I am considering for later $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O b . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . d . . . . . a . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . 2 . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . 3 . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black a looks cool while attacking the White tengen stone. Who knows what kind of vicious fighting this move will cause?

I don't even like b, even though it seems to make things difficult for the White center group. I am envisioning a reaction like so:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Black cuts, White bullys Blacks center group? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O 2 . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O 1 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

... or maybe like so:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Maybe White goes this way $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O 4 O X 5 . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X 2 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O 3 6 X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O 1 7 . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black c and d are just trying to protect more territory. I probably have more urgent points on the board (awkward shaped groups on the right side).

Aside:
While I am enjoying the Malkovich experience, I don't like continuing a pair go game much: there are :black:

moves on the board that I would not have made. In the interest of learning, I will try to make the most of the precarious board position!

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:40 pm

If uranther was going to protect this corner, he probably should have done so at D2 (E2 might be even better, although it's more complicated), because it applies more pressure on White's territory--via the monkey jump, for example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm8 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

On the flipside, the solid connection at D3 makes it harder for me to attack that corner. However, I would need much more strength on the outside for such an attack to be worthwhile. I doubt it will come to that. Thus, D3 loses a few points.

An entirely different question is whether the invasion in the corner was what Black truly should have been worried about right now. Currently, I am not sure. I am still in the process of estimating the point-value of other invasions and of White playing O10 (with best play from Black). I'll post my findings and further thoughts in the near future.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:57 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 2 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . 1 . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

First, as far as Black wanting to defend his moyo on the left, uranther's choice seems to be good (except that he should have played at D2 or, perhaps, at E2). It seems to me that the difference between the following two diagrams is about 20 points (which includes a few points from Black having the possibility to play the monkey jump later on):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . 8 X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . 1 2 6 O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . 5 3 4 7 . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This number of points is comparable to what White could expect to get from any of the other invasions, except the other invasions carry greater risk for White. For instance, an invasion at C12 suffers from the fact that it is difficult to run into the center. Black has a useful highlighted stone in place as well as a cutting point at K13 to aim at:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . B X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O M . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, connecting Black's weak groups seems pretty big, too. With Black's bottom group dead, O10 for White is promising. Even if White is unable to kill anything substantial, White should nevertheless get to place many useful stones. In particular, I really hope to play K13 in sente. This way, an invasion at C12 would become very strong. Having said all this, Black is behind, so perhaps he cannot afford to play passively. Maybe he now has to take risks. We'll see how all this works out. For the time being, White's attack on Black's weak groups continues unabated! :twisted:

uranther · Post by **uranther** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:40 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 2 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . 1 . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 I can't let that Q7 group get cut to pieces by playing at N10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . 3 2 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . 1 . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 I am expecting White to extend and connect up to his tengen stone. Maybe not so bad position for Black... $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . 6 4 2 O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . 1 . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:05 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . X O O . O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X X X O . O X . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . 2 O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O . X . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . O . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Explanation to follow below.

Life In 19x19

#177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther

Re: #177 The Intrepid vs. uranther