Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
https://lifein19x19.com/

#179 - DJLLAP vs opex

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=6636

Page 2 of 16

Re:

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:38 pm
by skydyr
EdLee wrote:I don't understand :b9:.
If B gets (a) later, W is not even alive:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$, . . . . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . O . . . |
$$, . . . 5 . , 2 . . |
$$. . . . . . X O . . |
$$. . . . . 3 . 1 a . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]


Yes, I expect white to trade the corner for influence on the left and come out ahead.

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:26 am
by opex
Wow, so many comments... Thanks for watching! :)

The only move here
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:21 am
by DJLLAP
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:07 pm
by Splatted
Observers only:

I can't see any way for this corner to not turn out horribly for black. If this was a real time game I'd assume it was an impulsive mistake (I've played it quite a few times myself :blackeye: ), but since this is a Malkovich game and that approach is such a common situation, it seems likely he's not only thought it through a bit, but has also done the same thing before... Is there something I'm missing?


@Djllap:

Could you show us what kind of sequence you're expecting in the corner?

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:41 pm
by konfuzed
@Splatted:

Ko for everything:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 3 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X 4 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:51 pm
by EdLee
Splatted wrote:Is there something I'm missing?
Yes, about :b9:, I'm guessing:
(1) bad habit, (2) copying others (blindly), (3) misunderstanding, (4) reading problems; or some combo of the above.

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:36 pm
by Splatted
konfuzed wrote:@Splatted:

Ko for everything:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 3 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X 4 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That explains it, but can't white play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Ed Lee:

Maybe, but I always get such a bad result when I play like that that I can't see how it could become a bad habit without there being a sequence I'd missed. Konfuzed's sequence explains it though. Even if it shouldn't work, I can definitely see myself playing like white in those diagrams.

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:49 pm
by opex
No free ponnukis! :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:18 pm
by konfuzed
@Splatted
Don't know for sure, but I believe this response from black rather than the tiger mouth would work in that case. White's knight move then does not take away a liberty.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white does want to take away a liberty, I think it doesn't quite work:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:49 pm
by DJLLAP
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



@Splatted
I am expecting something along the lines of the last diagram in my previous post. If he decides to play out the ko, I will play a high approach to his top left corner. If he responds, I will ignore any ko threat he makes to win the ko. If he captures I can be reasonably happy with a double approach.

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:52 pm
by EdLee
Splatted,
Splatted wrote:I can't see how it could become a bad habit without...
Usually, it's because nobody (high dan or above) ever pointed out to B the real meanings
(and complicated variations) behind a certain move (like :b9:).
So people continue to play things like :b9: often (with various results)
which actually may not be a bad thing, since a lot can be learned from the experiments. :)
For example, if :b1:, a possible pro move is :w2: --
the :bc: stone (and the rest of the board) makes a huge difference for the choice of :w2:
(possible follow-ups for :w4: include (b), (c), or something else entirely).
(At least one pro game, in 2002, had :w2: after :b1:. Another pro game, in 2008, had (b) for :w2: directly.)
If :b1: at (a) instead, then maybe W will simply (e) and (f) to capture :bt:.
It's very messy -- the situation is quite different from the perspectives of some amateurs (kyus and low dans). :o
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$. . . . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . b B c . |
$$. . . . . . 2 . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . O . . . |
$$. . . . . O X e . |
$$. . . . 1 X O Y . |
$$. . . . . a O f . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$-------------------[/go]

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:59 pm
by konfuzed
I didn't realize he had already posted the same sequence :oops:

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:05 pm
by EdLee
konfuzed,
konfuzed wrote:I didn't realize he had already posted the same sequence :oops:
It's OK, I also got ninja'd by DJLLAP's own :b11:. :)

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:01 pm
by Splatted
@Djllap

Sorry I don't know how I missed that. :oops:


@Konfuzed:

At least you didn't ask him to repost it. ORZ

You're right. I thought I had a kill sequence for the connection as well, but it seems I missread it.


@Ed Lee:

That's really interesting. I hadn't thought of that at all.

Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:34 am
by opex
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . X X O X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Immediate gote life is so small that i think i must be able to do better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black gets some thickness, right?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So now i'm thinking about this. If i manage to eat something, i think it's ok. I hope i'm not missing anything
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 2 of 16

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited