#180 Splatted vs konfuzed

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:15 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:41 pm

White's move works best when there are additional White stones such as the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . W O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . Q . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . Q . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this diagram, Black would not have enough eye-space on the edge of the board so the top-left Black group would need to run. White could hope to profit from the subsequent fight.

Without any such stones--such as in the game--a safer alternative would be to play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Next, White is threatening a, so Black should probably extend, as shown, letting White extend toward the 6-4 stone or play elsewhere entirely.

In the game, White group has the weakness of Black “b” which threatens Black “c”:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . W O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O c . . b . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, Black should probably first reinforce his top-left group by playing at d or thereabout.

Edit:

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:51 am

Just some thoughts for the moment:

Below are the points that I'm thinking about at the moment. They're general areas rather than specific moves.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , d . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a: Black's left hand group still doesn't have a proper base, so an extension on that side is big for either side. If I play around here it forces black to defend and makes territory for me. Comparing this with black getting another extension makes it seem even more appealing, but it also seems like I'm just inviting him to fix his problems. A playing close wouldn't even be sente, and I'm not sure playing further away would put any pressure on the group. I think I probably wont play here. It might be good preperation for "b" though...

b: I feel like the three space jump was an overplay here, so I'm really tempted to just jump in the middle and make hime pay. :twisted:

If I could split him it would be catastrophic for black, but I'm not sure I can. Not without creating an even weaker group than his, anyway. I need to try and read this out in more detail, but if I can't cut him, the move at a might be the best way of taking advantage of his weakness after all. (Though not necessarily immediately.)

I'll post about the rest later.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:15 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Continuing from earlier.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , d . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

C: I said why I was considering "c" earlier, but I didn't consider black attatching on top.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm11 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 7 . . 1 5 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , 3 2 . X . , 8 . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black gets a huge corner and lots of influence. (Edit: I see now that this is sente and allows white to follow up at Q10, which looks good for me, but as I said below, black can tenuki.) I considered leaving out :w7:

to take the corner, but even if white were strong enough to do that, it doesn't improve the situation much.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm11 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O O X . . 1 . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , O X . X . 2 3 . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . 4 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ugh! I'm not even going to bother explaining what's wrong with this!

I also don't think an approach is sente, since I can't find any particularly severe follow ups. He'd probably just tenuki if I played further out.

d: This corner is really throwing me off because I'm not really sure how to attack it. It looks like I should be able to waltz in and make loads of territory, but non of my variations work out like that. I'm only partly considering this for now. I also need to know what I can do here so I can decide how I want the rest of the board to turn out. It seems like I can't really stop black from making a lot of influence here if he wants it. (unsurprisingly)

e: I should probably have put this around Q10. The point of this is to stop black from creating a huge moyo. If Black plays here first it will work really well with his O16 stone. I think this is important because I just seem to have the same kind of potential on the rest of the board. I don't see anything wrong with this idea, and it seems pretty urgent, so I think that's what I will do. The only question left is high or low. I feel that when surrounded by other stones high is generally better, since it makes it easier to run in to the centre, and I don't have to worry about being pushed low.

I do really want to attack that black group on the left though...

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:43 pm

Just a comment for now. Don't know how fast I'll make my next move, because there's some stuff I want to figure out and college can be busy.

So I have read about this weakness threatening to cut the knight move on web sites and Elementary Go Volume 2 I believe.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 3 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But that can't happen unless white tenukis again as far as I can tell. What I need to figure out is how White can respond locally, how I'd respond to those responses, and how desirable those sequences are for me.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:48 pm

I've added ranks to the first post, since that way you'll all know whether you should be mocking our stupidity or praising our ineffable wisdom.

@Konfuzed: That's fine, take your time.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:14 pm

Initial thoughts:

I think this would be good for me

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , 3 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but this is my first instinct for white, and I can't figure out what to do about it yet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

One thought

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 2 1 . . 3 . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . X , . O . 4 . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this would be fine for me.

Another one I'm worried about:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 2 1 . . 3 . . . . 9 7 . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . B X . 4 8 . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . W 6 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Too good for white?
This may be a playstyle issue but I don't want to be black here. I think the side stone he already played is very efficient in this variation. I'm curious to see what he/observers think about this situation after the game.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:19 pm

Please figure out how to number your moves correctly.
(So people can more easily praise your ineffable wisdom.

)
There are many existing examples in Malkovich games and elsewhere viewtopic.php?f=5&t=226

Not for players:

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:10 pm

Please figure out how to number your moves correctly.
(So people can more easily praise your ineffable wisdom. )

I forgot that people would need to do that. How inconsiderate of me. XD

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:35 pm

I will try to do a better job numbering the moves.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:37 pm

Initial thoughts:

OMG I didn't realise how weak that group was! But maybe it's not so bad.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 2 1 . . 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . 3 . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll look at it more carefully later... :-?

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:16 pm

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:12 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:33 am

Initial thoughts.

All right, first thought is to consider extending when he kicks (last time I dismissed it because I don't have time to make an ideal extension, though my 6-4 helps a bit in that regard)

I may be able to figure out a way to connect my groups, get thickness, or attack his stones if he tries to attack me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm15 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O 3 1 . , 2 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, if he moves towards the center my own group in the top-left also has a weakness that I must cover for. He can lean on my strong group, keep me low and bring his group out, and still possibly have an attack on my stones he kicked.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm15 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . 1 . , 6 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The knight move can be cut, but the problem is I a have a weak group to look after on the other side at that point.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , O . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X 1 2 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I try to cut the knights move initially, the net at the triangle will capture my stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 4 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 7 . . T . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:17 am

konfuzed wrote:Initial thoughts:

I think this would be good for me
$$Bcm1 19x19 board
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$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , 3 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this diagram, the 6-4 stone seems to be out of place a bit. If it were at 3-4, for instance, Black could play this, which seems to me to be more efficient:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . 3 . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Similarly for 4-4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 . . . 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . . . , . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, White might play something else instead of 2 (as in the game) so, of course, other variations need to be considered to decide if having the stone at 6-4 is preferable or not. What do other observers think on the subject?

Life In 19x19

#180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed