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Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:24 am
by HermanHiddema
quantumf wrote:HermanHiddema wrote:Yesterday, I resigned a game in which I was ahead

Is the lead that clear? Seems like there is a LOT of complex endgame still to resolve, with lots of hard to defend borders still in place.
IMO, yes it is. Black is ahead by 5-10 points and has sente. There is a lot of endgame remaining, but it is all fairly straightforward. I don't see the kind of swing happening that white needs to win.
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:03 am
by Dusk Eagle
Herman, I'm still not convinced about the sequence in the upper-right corner. Yes, you make your top side stronger with such a sequence, but you also make white's S4 group significantly stronger as well. If I were playing in your shoes and wanted sente, I would prefer the double hane sente variation, as it doesn't hurt your R10 stone as much. I'm weaker than you but I just thought I would put this out there and see if you had any comment on in.
P.S. All of the diagrams you posted are one line shorter than they should be, so the R10 stone is actually one line farther away than what you showed.
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:22 am
by HermanHiddema
Dusk Eagle wrote:Herman, I'm still not convinced about the sequence in the upper-right corner. Yes, you make your top side stronger with such a sequence, but you also make white's S4 group significantly stronger as well. If I were playing in your shoes and wanted sente, I would prefer the double hane sente variation, as it doesn't hurt your R10 stone as much. I'm weaker than you but I just thought I would put this out there and see if you had any comment on in.
P.S. All of the diagrams you posted are one line shorter than they should be, so the R10 stone is actually one line farther away than what you showed.
Just because I'm stronger doesn't mean I'm right

I think the double hane variation is a viable alternative. It may well be better. I just have a sort of personal prejudice against it

The variation I played makes a really strong black group. Extra strong because of the way the corner player out with R18 and S18. Perhaps it is overconcentrated, but it makes invasion completely unrealistic after F15, IMO.
Certainly my opponent completely mishandled the right side later. After

(T5), it is an unmitigated disaster.
Fixed the diagrams, thanks!
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:41 am
by Alguien
I hereby display my move 224 as a classic example of the "lose my game in the last move" style.
I must say in my defense that I'm pretty sure I played that move after some pints of beer (DGS + phone app).
(
;FF[4]GM[1]
AP[DGS:1.0.15]
PC[Dragon Go Server:
http://www.dragongoserver.net/]
DT[2012-08-13,2012-09-08]
GN[sid-Alguien-751352-20120908]
SO[http://www.dragongoserver.net/game.php?gid=751352]
PB[Alguien (Alguien)]
PW[boo (sid)]
BR[5k]
WR[2k]
XM[239]
GC[Game ID: 751352
Game Type: GO (1:1)
Rated: Y
White Start Rating: 2k (-31%) - ELO 1869
Black Start Rating: 4k (-27%) - ELO 1672
White End Rating: 2k (-8%) - ELO 1891
Black End Rating: 5k (-21%) - ELO 1578]
OT[30 days with 1 day extra per move]
RU[Japanese]
SZ[19]
KM[0.5]
HA[2]
RE[W+0.5]
AB[dp][pd]PL[W]
;MN[1]W[qp]
;B[dd]
;W[fq]
;B[er]
;W[kq]
;B[qj]
;W[cm]
;B[co]
;W[nc]
;B[pf]
;W[pb]
;B[qc]
;W[kc]
;B[cj]
;W[fc]
;B[ec]
;W[em]
;B[fo]
;W[cf]
;B[df]
;W[dg]
;B[ef]
;W[ce]
;B[cd]
;W[di]
;B[iq]
;W[eb]
;B[cg]
;W[ch]
;B[db]
;W[ed]
;B[dc]
;W[fd]
;B[op]
;W[qn]
;B[qq]
;W[pq]
;B[pp]
;W[qr]
;B[rq]
;W[rp]
;B[oq]
;W[pr]
;B[or]
;W[rr]
;B[ko]
;W[lo]
;B[lp]
;W[kp]
;B[mp]
;W[jo]
;B[kn]
;W[ip]
;B[hp]
;W[ho]
;B[gp]
;W[jn]
;B[km]
;W[jm]
;B[kl]
;W[gm]
;B[jq]
;W[jp]
;B[pm]
;W[pn]
;B[om]
;W[on]
;B[nn]
;W[qm]
;B[ql]
;W[rl]
;B[qk]
;W[nm]
;B[mn]
;W[pl]
;B[ol]
;W[lg]
;B[ng]
;W[mh]
;B[nh]
;W[mi]
;B[nj]
;W[de]
;B[ke]
;W[jg]
;B[lc]
;W[lb]
;B[me]
;W[ld]
;B[le]
;W[jd]
;B[je]
;W[id]
;B[ie]
;W[hg]
;B[ee]
;W[bg]
;B[ge]
;W[fb]
;B[gf]
;W[bb]
;B[bc]
;W[cb]
;B[da]
;W[ab]
;B[be]
;W[bf]
;B[ba]
;W[ae]
;B[ad]
;W[bd]
;B[fl]
;W[fm]
;B[be]
;W[gg]
;B[af]
;W[jk]
;B[if]
;W[bn]
;B[bo]
;W[rk]
;B[hc]
;W[hd]
;B[gd]
;W[gc]
;B[hb]
;W[ib]
;B[fa]
;W[ha]
;B[ga]
;W[ia]
;B[ea]
;W[ic]
;B[gb]
;W[sh]
;B[rh]
;W[si]
;B[sg]
;W[rj]
;B[ri]
;W[sj]
;B[qg]
;W[jr]
;B[hr]
;W[mj]
;B[nk]
;W[ig]
;B[lj]
;W[kj]
;B[kh]
;W[ki]
;B[lk]
;W[li]
;B[oc]
;W[ob]
;B[nd]
;W[mc]
;B[lr]
;W[kr]
;B[jl]
;W[il]
;B[eg]
;W[eh]
;B[fg]
;W[fh]
;B[kg]
;W[kf]
;B[lf]
;W[jf]
;B[mg]
;W[qb]
;B[rc]
;W[pc]
;B[od]
;W[rb]
;B[sb]
;W[ao]
;B[ap]
;W[an]
;B[bp]
;W[cn]
;B[dn]
;W[dm]
;B[lq]
;W[ir]
;B[hq]
;W[ms]
;B[ns]
;W[nr]
;B[os]
;W[ls]
;B[mr]
;W[ks]
;B[lh]
;W[jh]
;B[lg]
;W[en]
;B[eo]
;W[mk]
;B[ml]
;W[kk]
;B[ll]
;W[ni]
;B[oi]
;W[hs]
;B[gs]
;W[is]
;B[gr]
;W[go]
;B[ps]
;W[qs]
;B[fn]
;W[oo]
;B[no]
;W[po]
;B[gn]
;W[hn]
;B[ag]
;W[ah]
;B[ae]
;W[ra]
;B[do]
;W[sa]
;B[sc]
;W[rf]
;B[re]
;W[rg]
;B[qf]
;W[sf]
;B[se]
;W[sg]
;B[md]
;W[kd]
;B[]
;W[]
;B[]
TB[ep][pe][pg][ph][eq][es][ok][ff][fe][pi][ds][cr][cq][cp][qe][qd][pk][dr][dq][pj][oj][fp][mq][ne][nf][nl][mo][mm][lm][ln][mf][np][nq][oh][fs][fr][og][of][gq][bb][oe][qh][cs][eb][ed][pl][gc][aa][aq][qi][lo][nm][fq][cb][ab][fd][fc][nr][fb][ar][ac][bq][as][br][bs][cc][ca][sd][rd][bd]
TW[ss][sr][ka][mb][sl][ma][la][kb][lc][qo][sk][na][pa][ro][rn][rs][sq][sp][rm][oa][qa][sm][sn][so][nb][gl][ci][ck][cg][bm][bl][cl][dh][ei][ej][dl][dk][dj][bk][bj][qq][ai][rq][fl][cj][aj][ak][bi][bh][am][al][ek][el][ik][im][ij][ii][ih][in][io][ji][jj][jc][jb][ja][hm][hl][gh][gi][fk][fj][fi][gj][gk][hk][hj][hi][hh][js]
C[White: 75 territories + 2*4 dead stones(B) + 4 prisoners + 0.5 komi = 87.5
Black: 56 territories + 2*14 dead stones(W) + 3 prisoners = 87
Result: W+0.5]
)
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:35 am
by kivi
HermanHiddema wrote:HermanHiddema wrote:Yesterday, I resigned a game in which I was ahead

In case anyone is interested, here is the game:
White 186 is self-atari for the huge group, and stays ready to be captured until move 196.
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:56 am
by HermanHiddema
kivi wrote:HermanHiddema wrote:HermanHiddema wrote:Yesterday, I resigned a game in which I was ahead

In case anyone is interested, here is the game:
White 186 is self-atari for the huge group, and stays ready to be captured until move 196.
Ah, yeah, recording error. We already exchanged some moves at the top, and white already captured there.
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:25 pm
by jts
Alguein, I think it's 206 that lost it. The cut is bad.
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:28 am
by HermanHiddema
Fixed the game record to remove the auto-atari

Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:47 am
by cyclops
jts wrote:Alguein, I think it's 206 that lost it. The cut is bad.
It took me a while before I understood. Probably you meant 208 lost it because w can't cut there.
Better still, I think, is to play w206 at J1. A nice eye killing move. It aims at the cuts of J7,J9 and K11 as soon as w fills up here.
I disagree though that these are the losing moves. I think preventing the loss in the upper right corner is enough. 218 or 222 at S19 for example. Or as Alguien suggests 224 at S16.
It seems from 206 w in a very subtile way conceals his intention to loose with 0.5 pt exactly.
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:44 pm
by jts
cyclops wrote:jts wrote:Alguein, I think it's 206 that lost it. The cut is bad.
It took me a while before I understood. Probably you meant 208 lost it because w can't cut there.
Better still, I think, is to play w206 at J1. A nice eye killing move. It aims at the cuts of J7,J9 and K11 as soon as w fills up here.
I disagree though that these are the losing moves. I think preventing the loss in the upper right corner is enough. 218 or 222 at S19 for example. Or as Alguien suggests 224 at S16.
It seems from 206 w in a very subtile way conceals his intention to loose with 0.5 pt exactly.
To be honest, I no longer remember exactly what I was looking at.
Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:49 pm
by Phelan
p2501 wrote:I counted a finished game in a tournament wrong by as much as 3 points and declared my loss. Only to be informed by others that I counted wrong and win by half a point.
I think I've had that one happen to me.

Re: The king of end-game blunders
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:33 am
by ProtoJazz
I was about 50 points ahead against a 9k. One bad move made it about 20 in his favor. I move 175
http://files.gokgs.com/games/2012/9/14/TRi93-ProtoJazz.sgf