Life In 19x19

Samura wrote:

TheBigH wrote:Also there's a lot of KGS players who are stronger than their rank suggests. Sometimes, in my cynical moments, I suspect that the 15-20k users on KGS can be divided into exactly three groups of people:
1. Sandbaggers.
2. Dan level players with new accounts, working their way up the ranks.
3. Me.

As a 18k, that is how I feel to at KGS. I think the solution is to regard the games against sandbaggers as a fortunate chance to play against stronger players and learn , even if it wasn't the intention when you started the game

This is precisely why we tell beginners to chill out about rank. you must be winning half your games, or else you would be 19k or 20k. And yet you feel, when you lose, that you got thrashed. Why? Because rank doesn't mean much when youre starting out. (heck, not sure how much it means after you've been playing for two years, either.)

Recently I can play a lot of games in person, so I gave up on my KGS account. On KGS I just feel a I can't get focused and serious.

Samura wrote:

TheBigH wrote:Also there's a lot of KGS players who are stronger than their rank suggests. Sometimes, in my cynical moments, I suspect that the 15-20k users on KGS can be divided into exactly three groups of people:
1. Sandbaggers.
2. Dan level players with new accounts, working their way up the ranks.
3. Me.

As a 18k, that is how I feel to at KGS. I think the solution is to regard the games against sandbaggers as a fortunate chance to play against stronger players and learn , even if it wasn't the intention when you started the game

I'm currently one of those sandbaggers, but not intentionally. I had been playing on IGS for several months, and I didn't realize that my KGS ranking would disappear. Going from 6k to 30k has obviously made for some highly lopsided matches. For those opponents who are interested, however, I've tried to turn them into teaching games. I'm not pushy about it, I just mention, "If you would care for a review after this game I would be glad to do it." Most people ignore me, but I did have one really good review recently. He asked a lot of questions, and hopefully I gave him useful info.

As for the main topic, I prefer live go, but I'm stronger online. I like to play longer timed games online, and I have no problem using all of my clock if needed. In person I'll pause for a tricky situation, but generally play a lot faster than I would online.

I'm at least a stone stronger playing face to face. On Go servers I can't focus as much.

I also love the physical component of Go: the feel and sound of stones rattling in the bowl as you fish one out and the solid hit against the wood as you play it.
And there's also the social aspect.

No matter how good the interface, online go doesn't fill the same need.

jdl wrote:I'm currently one of those sandbaggers, but not intentionally. I had been playing on IGS for several months, and I didn't realize that my KGS ranking would disappear. Going from 6k to 30k has obviously made for some highly lopsided matches.

I don't understand why you'd go from 6k to 30k. If you don't play on KGS, eventually your rank becomes just "?" but that is not 30k. You just use automatch or manually request a game with a player that's near the rank you estimate you are at. Basically, the same that you would do with a new account.

For the same reason, dan players don't have to "work their way up" on KGS.

jts wrote:This is precisely why we tell beginners to chill out about rank. you must be winning half your games, or else you would be 19k or 20k. And yet you feel, when you lose, that you got thrashed. Why? Because rank doesn't mean much when youre starting out. (heck, not sure how much it means after you've been playing for two years, either.)

Indeed...I mean at the 20k level all it might take is for one key concept to click and they see a sudden jump of several stones in strength within the same game*. Likewise it can take just one little slip up and it feels like you're three stones behind...in the end best to just hold tight and hang on for the ride (=



*Anecdotally, I think the vast majority of my progress from 20k-15k can be directly attributed to a stronger player reviewing one of my games and saying "Only leave a cutting point if you want your opponent to cut there". Of course as always your mileage may vary, offer void where prohibited, may not be valid in all states, some restrictions may apply.

snorri wrote:

jdl wrote:I'm currently one of those sandbaggers, but not intentionally. I had been playing on IGS for several months, and I didn't realize that my KGS ranking would disappear. Going from 6k to 30k has obviously made for some highly lopsided matches.

I don't understand why you'd go from 6k to 30k. If you don't play on KGS, eventually your rank becomes just "?" but that is not 30k. You just use automatch or manually request a game with a player that's near the rank you estimate you are at. Basically, the same that you would do with a new account.

It went to "?" for 1 game, which the automatcher treated as 30k. Then for the next half dozen games I was "28k?" and "27k?". Now it's spiked to "4k?". So I still have the question mark, but at least the automatch tool will be reflecting reality for now.

jdl wrote:

snorri wrote:

jdl wrote:I'm currently one of those sandbaggers, but not intentionally. I had been playing on IGS for several months, and I didn't realize that my KGS ranking would disappear. Going from 6k to 30k has obviously made for some highly lopsided matches.

I don't understand why you'd go from 6k to 30k. If you don't play on KGS, eventually your rank becomes just "?" but that is not 30k. You just use automatch or manually request a game with a player that's near the rank you estimate you are at. Basically, the same that you would do with a new account.

It went to "?" for 1 game, which the automatcher treated as 30k. Then for the next half dozen games I was "28k?" and "27k?". Now it's spiked to "4k?". So I still have the question mark, but at least the automatch tool will be reflecting reality for now.

If you are ? then you have to set your own rank for automatch. I think the first time you login it defaults to 26k though.

Ah, I didn't know that I could set that. It doesn't appear to matter anymore though, and at least one player got a semi-decent review out of the deal.

The instant availability of online play is great, but I just haven't been able to get into it vs. F2F. Online makes me feel antsy and such compared to just pulling out a board and rattling some stones.

Between that and the fact that it is much harder for someone to walk away from a F2F game, I'll take in-person play any day of the week (esp. club Sundays).

Bruce "Online=Uptight" Young

I like playing in person better. At least when all the stones are the same size and actually fit on the board I only get the chance to play in person games about 1-2 times a month though. I don't always make it to my club since I often play drums at my church.

Playing in person is a lot more intense emotionally. Somehow I always feel bad for my opponent when he is on the losing side (strange habit, I know). In addition, I am really tense because there is more on the line. Some anonymous internet opponent does not demand my best, but if I play face to face, I want them to know my strength.

I experience no difference between playing on a board and playing online. Go is Go.