Life In 19x19

TheBigH wrote:I do know that online ranks are unreliable from 30k to about 15k.

I think you can remove 'online' from that statement, and it would be more generally accurate.

There are many go skills. (I want to say that there are at least two dozen, but I don't really know. ) Rating or rank is a kind of average of them, related to handicap. It is not transitive. That is, player A may be able to beat player B in an even game, player B may be able to beat player C, and player C may be able to beat player A. Rank depends upon the other players, not just in terms of skill, but in terms of their mix of skills. For instance, in the example of A, B, and C, we expect that they will have the same rank. But suppose that A moves away. Now B may be one rank stronger than C.

Bill Spight wrote: But suppose that A moves away. Now B may be one rank stronger than C.

But does he have A's shoes?

To be exact: ranks don't represent skills, but results. More precisely, results in a certain environment (e.g. online play or live tournament) under specific rules according to a specific rating system.

So it's very hard to compare different ranks but in the end results are the only measure of go ability we have.

One could say, ranks measure the skill to win a game of go (to place your stones more efficiently than your opponent over the course of a whole game) under certain conditions (time settings, atmosphere etc.). But even with the same rank there can be big differences in specific skill areas (opening, joseki knowledge, fighting, endgame) that eventually cancel each other out. Also one might be more comfortable with some styles of play than with others.

All in all I believe if a rank results from playing games on a regular basis under comparable conditions then it's a fairly accurate representation of your skill (of playing in just these conditions).

But if you really want to know how strong someone is, you'll just have to play them yourself and find out.

golem7 wrote:To be exact: ranks don't represent skills, but results. More precisely, results in a certain environment (e.g. online play or live tournament) under specific rules according to a specific rating system.

So it's very hard to compare different ranks but in the end results are the only measure of go ability we have.

One could say, ranks measure the skill to win a game of go (to place your stones more efficiently than your opponent over the course of a whole game) under certain conditions (time settings, atmosphere etc.). But even with the same rank there can be big differences in specific skill areas (opening, joseki knowledge, fighting, endgame) that eventually cancel each other out. Also one might be more comfortable with some styles of play than with others.

All in all I believe if a rank results from playing games on a regular basis under comparable conditions then it's a fairly accurate representation of your skill (of playing in just these conditions).

But if you really want to know how strong someone is, you'll just have to play them yourself and find out.

So do you think handicap settings should default to the discrepancy between the ranks of the players? Shouldn't an even game be the more preferable default between players who have not played each other before?

Annihilist wrote:So do you think handicap settings should default to the discrepancy between the ranks of the players? Shouldn't an even game be the more preferable default between players who have not played each other before?

I think rank difference is a very good estimate for handicap settings. That's the whole point of it, isn't it? You'll only know the real strength difference after a certain number of games but it's a good starting point, especially if the difference in rank is very big. An even game with a player who is many stones weaker can be very annoying especially when the weaker player refuses to resign despite a clearly lost game (which he maybe can't even see).

When I play someone on a real board for the first time, I usually go with the rank difference or one stone less as a handicap. But I'll also gladly play even games with someone about 2 stones stronger or weaker. Even games are the best, after all