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Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:04 am
by Marcus
Not for the players:

This should help Laman feel less lonely.

Also, he's giving Magicwand the ability to dictate the flow of the game, I think.

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:04 am
by daniel_the_smith
I think Laman is too scared of white. I think Magicwand is going to win this.

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:13 am
by Chew Terr
I'm predicting Magicwand will Q18 and connect in sente, then play somewhere on the top to reduce the value of black's thickness. I also predict that he will speculate that this final play is overplay. =D

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:22 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 15 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . W . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

you will get used to it. it feels like talking to the wall at first...later it will be ok. i am sure many observers will enjoy your comments.
i like the layout sofar. i am just waiting for some complication...
as you already know..i dont start complication unless i have some influence.
this is not time yet.

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:28 pm
by Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 16 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

thank you spectators for your comments, i am happy to see somebody is out there :)
this seems best to keep pressure on white stones, black M17 would be too small scale and tenuki would allow white to play kakari F17 and his group would have then more space to maneuver. white a in the diagram 1 is unpleasant, but i believe i will be able to exploit weakness of white group in that case, beginning probably with black b
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Diagram 1: possible continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . b . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:32 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 17 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O 4 X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

let me know if you disagree on above sequence.
i have nothing to say now but want him to think about my hidden comment.

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:42 pm
by Aphelion
Surely you mean this, Magicwand?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Move 17 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O 4 X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:44 pm
by Magicwand
Aphelion wrote:Surely you mean this, Magicwand?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Move 17 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O 4 X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

thank you. as i already said i am working hard for my money...
multi tasking is my nickname!

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:28 pm
by Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 22 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i didnt very much consider whites sequence, because i thought it would weaken his group. he played it anyway, so probably it is not so bad sequence after all :). for this move i thought also about black O16, eventually letting white connect and just press him down along the edge, but in the end i decided this is preferable

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:36 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 23 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . W . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

what he just played is an example of aji keshi.
i think below is correct response and i dont know how i would have answere that but i guess i dont have to think about that now.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 23 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . 1 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:41 pm
by Tryphon
To Laman :

Laman wrote:for this move i thought also about black O16, eventually letting white connect and just press him down along the edge, but in the end i decided this is preferable


Why ?

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:56 pm
by Harleqin
I am pretty sure that keeping White separated is not a bad idea. The hane above, letting White connect, is surely not a move Black can profit from, since his wall is already very stable. If anything, Black might consider something around M17 to separate there, but I think that this will not result in a much weaker white group than the game move. I think that I would have simply descended to the edge, though, because the white sente block creates eye shape.

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:10 pm
by Laman
Tryphon:
if it went this way, i could be quite content, white makes 0 points and i gain influence (although while losing territory)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . 6 4 2 O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . B . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this is similar to the actual game but i felt it slightly inferior, because white can play a if he gets into troubles and i can then either connect making a dumpling or let him take one stone to make his prospects looking better. not a big difference to O19, but if you look at the situation after move 23, now i wont exchange O16 for N16
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Diagram 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . 3 . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . 1 B . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:30 pm
by Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 24 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . O . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

maybe i should have continue in attacking, but a and b are somewhat miai and i dont expect white to reinforce here right now anyway. c would be good for stabilizing my group in the upper right corner and making some territory, but it is gote and probably wrong direction. and some move on the lower side is also very big indeed, but have to wait now. by the way, i have chosen D10 instead of D11 in my previous diagrams because D11 would be too close to the black wall after sansan joseki starting W d, B e
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . X . . . O . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . e X . . . . . O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 38. Laman vs Magicwand

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:39 pm
by Peter Hansmeier
When I play white in a handicap game I feel confident when I see results like in the upper right. Black, though solid, feels passive. In handicap games this kind of group eventually becomes a liability. I am curious to see how Magicwand plans to break up the left side without hurting his group on the upper side.