Life In 19x19

Bears repeating -- do not judge the strength of computer go by the programs able to play on an Android device. Nor by the the strength of some of the bots running on machines far more powerful than what you might have at home (unless perhaps you are a very serious gamer).

The stronger go playing programs running on a "typical" modern home computer will range from perhaps 1-3 dan.

Mike Novack wrote:Bears repeating -- do not judge the strength of computer go by the programs able to play on an Android device. Nor by the the strength of some of the bots running on machines far more powerful than what you might have at home (unless perhaps you are a very serious gamer).

The stronger go playing programs running on a "typical" modern home computer will range from perhaps 1-3 dan.

I do have a big enough machine at home and I think I could find a bot that could beat me on it but I'd still prefer to pay a small monthly fee to have a big server somewhere beating me on my phone.

The reason being that if I'm at home, in front of the big enough machine, I can play on any of the live servers. It's on my phone that I need an opponent that doesn't mind me playing three moves and then stopping for half an hour while not doing that himself.

Alguien wrote:

Mike Novack wrote:Bears repeating -- do not judge the strength of computer go by the programs able to play on an Android device. Nor by the the strength of some of the bots running on machines far more powerful than what you might have at home (unless perhaps you are a very serious gamer).

The stronger go playing programs running on a "typical" modern home computer will range from perhaps 1-3 dan.

I do have a big enough machine at home and I think I could find a bot that could beat me on it but I'd still prefer to pay a small monthly fee to have a big server somewhere beating me on my phone.

The reason being that if I'm at home, in front of the big enough machine, I can play on any of the live servers. It's on my phone that I need an opponent that doesn't mind me playing three moves and then stopping for half an hour while not doing that himself.

What is this big server thing? Can you rent computer power or something like that? Also how strong are the android computers in 9x9? Seems like it would be more interesting that way.

BigBadBuu wrote:What is this big server thing?

It's a subscription based service that I think is only in use by the iphone edition of crazy stone. You pay a monthly fee and they keep a server somewhere that answers your moves. This gives you an app that works in a phone but with a strong AI.

Well, after having to return my tablet for a defect and a whole lot of problems getting my replacement, I'm back to puttering, and here's some comments on what I've tried:

Go Free - Pretty and fun for an easy game of 13x13 or 9x9. I especially like it for giving to newbie kids to play with because they can beat it, and it's a confidence booster. Not going to upgrade, though.

Gobandroid - It's the only Go app I've tried that will let you hold it sideways! Nice for review or playing against GnuGo. It will let you save actual SGF files. (Haven't tested that, but if it works, awesome!) Incredible variety of board sizes available, from 2x2 to 23x23. (Seriously, is a 2x2 game even possible?) It doesn't have much in the way of controls within the game, to open a game file you find the SGF with a file manager program, and choose Gobandroid to open it with. No coordinates on the board, which is annoying when you're reviewing a SGF with lots of comments like 'If you had played P13 it would have messed up white's influence and the m10 group would have died."

anDGS - I don't use the Dragon go server, so this is only good for review for me. This is one of the two programs I have capable of opening an SGF file. You can even open it from within anDGS...but only if you type in the filepath. (Needs browsing capability.) It is vertical-only, and also doesn't have an option for coordinates.

ElyGo Lite - Very ambitious, all-around program. Slightly incompatible with my tablet--the score gets cut off. Can't find a 'resign' button, don't know if there is one. No sound, apparently, at least not on my tablet. I believe the paid version lets you open SGF files, but no idea if you can save your own. Has some tsumego built in, lets you play on IGS or against Gnu Go. I may upgrade at some point. Or not.

Champion Go - Yeah, I bit the bullet and actually paid, after reading all the good reviews. Nice game engine, I find it a challenge to play. I tried an even game first and won, then cranked it up to full power, gave myself a 9 stone handicap, and got slaughtered. (Note: I was kind of trying to get slaughtered at first. I had a reason. But still, it kicked me around even after I got serious. For the sake of reference, I'm around 11/12k on KGS.) The program lets you save your games. And it had an option for coordinates on the board! Unfortunately, it apparently does not open outside SGF files for review. And the games you save on it are not accessible to other programs or to transfer to your computer. There is an option to export via e-mail, but if you haven't got your e-mail set up on your tablet, you are out of luck. (I only use public wireless at work, e-mail isn't practical for me.)

I haven't tried the new upgrade of WegoIgo yet, but I probably will. Looks like it has coordinates on the board...

BW-Go is usable app for creating sgf files with variations and marks support. Support for kogo's joseki dictionary is included and you can play against a bot. I am using champion go on mobile so i dont know BW-Go bot strength.

Inkwolf wrote:...

anDGS - I don't use the Dragon go server, so this is only good for review for me. This is one of the two programs I have capable of opening an SGF file. You can even open it from within anDGS...but only if you type in the filepath. (Needs browsing capability.) It is vertical-only, and also doesn't have an option for coordinates.

...

Thanks for the reference, but you seemed to have missed the extensive list of options in the preference menu (it is accessed via the standard Android menu icon) In there you can find a landscape option for viewing sideways (chose a fixed option over auto rotate to make it less jittery picking it up when recording tournaments and playing while moving), a board coordinates option, etc.

With anDGS installed, if you click on a link to an sgf file in most web browsers, depending how the site is set up it can either be opened directly in anDGS or downloaded to the sdcard where you can open it in anDGS either from the saved games button (this is the browsing capability you missed) in anDGS or opening the file in most file browser.

If you are using it for review, don't miss the board markup interface to add your own marks and labels to an sgf.

Reviewing a game or problem, try the guess the next move mode. Just want to sit back and watch moves being automatically presented one at a time check out the auto play mode. Both are are in the Review Game button.

And one other thing most people seem to miss is the help text specific for each view via the standard android menu.

One thing I'm still looking for is an android app with a game tree view. Gobandroid has variation click through which is a bit annoying. AnDGS has up/down buttons to get through variations but you have to keep your eyes open and remember how far you've moved.

I've suggested it to the gobandroid author, but I haven't seen a nice interface yet.

mdobbins wrote:

Inkwolf wrote:...

anDGS - I don't use the Dragon go server, so this is only good for review for me. This is one of the two programs I have capable of opening an SGF file. You can even open it from within anDGS...but only if you type in the filepath. (Needs browsing capability.) It is vertical-only, and also doesn't have an option for coordinates.

...

Thanks for the reference, but you seemed to have missed the extensive list of options in the preference menu (it is accessed via the standard Android menu icon) In there you can find a landscape option for viewing sideways (chose a fixed option over auto rotate to make it less jittery picking it up when recording tournaments and playing while moving), a board coordinates option, etc.

Great, thanks! I will have to have another look at it. So many of the programs I've been trying out have no preferences or options that I can find, maybe I never looked on anDGS.

Update on ElyGo, too--the cut-off score problem has been fixed. I got an e-mail back from the developer, saying that the save feature was removed for debugging and should be back at some time, and that there will also be sound in the future at some point. It may need some tweaking to open SGFs outside the ElyGo SGF folder. I haven't tried moving other SGFs into that folder.

WeGoIgo - Tried this one this morning. I had tried it when I first got my tablet and was unimpressed, but the author had notes all over the listing saying it had been drastically improved. I've only tried looking at a few SGF files and played a game against GnuGo (unfinished because Gnu gets stuck in thinking mode.) Not my first choice for game playing (no sound, stones hard to place accurately) but okay for reviewing.
It can be used vertically or horizontally, and had grid coordinates. It can (sometimes) open SGF files from in-game. I say 'sometimes' because when I tried opening a commented file, I got a message that it was 'incompatible with the collection' or something, but WeGoIgo was able to play it back when I used a file browser program to select it.
In so many ways it's just exactly what I want for file reviewing, but I wish I could find a way to turn the numbered stones off.

Alguien wrote:

BigBadBuu wrote:What is this big server thing?

It's a subscription based service that I think is only in use by the iphone edition of crazy stone. You pay a monthly fee and they keep a server somewhere that answers your moves. This gives you an app that works in a phone but with a strong AI.

Hactar Go offers AI subscription for Android (1€/month).
I (author of Hactar) think engine is about 1kyu.

regards
Lauri

oren wrote:One thing I'm still looking for is an android app with a game tree view. Gobandroid has variation click through which is a bit annoying. AnDGS has up/down buttons to get through variations but you have to keep your eyes open and remember how far you've moved.

For me, the perfect way of designing that tree would be:
- One button switches the full screen board for a tiny board and a visible tree like the one in eidogo. Clicking on the tree navigates it as expected.
- One button (back?) returns to the board and in it you can see when there are alternative branches with square numbers, like in eidogo.
- One button shows or hides the numbers.

I had another cheap tablet die (fortunately still within the return period) so I am now awaiting another one. This time I decided to get something decent and ordered an Acer A110, so with any luck, I will not have to go through reinstalling everything a fifth time. (Yay for tax refunds!)

But I will be sure to try Hactar Go's review tools (I thought it was just a beginner/Capture Go app) and take a better look at anDGS.

Inkwolf wrote:But I will be sure to try Hactar Go's review tools (I thought it was just a beginner/Capture Go app) and take a better look at anDGS.

Hactar is actually quite all-purpose go program. I just have not got around to advertise it so well

At the moment AI is used for playing. I am about to implement additional uses (first one is scoring / evaluating position).
If you look after something specific, please mail me.

regards
Lauri