[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 21, W: 19 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . m . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . W . . . . O O 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . W . . . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . W . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Wow, did he really think the sequence I gave was not forced? Even if he wants to make a funky tenuki (which would be strange already), he must block first. That's a basic shape: if someone pushes through your one-space extension you block first, then think - even if you then need to sacrifice something afterwards.
$$Bcm1 Unplayable for white... $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . m . . . . X 1 3 . | $$ | . . W . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . W . . . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . 2 . | $$ | . . W . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Must block first to create some aji. $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O 3 . | $$ | . . m . . . . X 1 2 7 | $$ | . . W . . . . . O 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . | $$ | p . . W . . . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . 4 . | $$ | . . W . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Anyway. Let's get on with the game. He played another move I didn't anticipate. Which is fine, because I really like taking this ponnuki . After I take it, white still has a cutting point which he needs to connect with 4 in the diagramme below. And then I can attack him with 5 which takes away his eyeshape, makes some territory, and has a reasonably logical continuation at the plus point. Can't be bad.
$$Bcm1 Expected $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . m . . . . X X O 3 | $$ | . . W . . . . O O 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . | $$ | p . . W . . . . 4 . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . 5 . | $$ | . . W . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 21, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . m . . . W X X O . | $$ | . . @ . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
my thoughts
none, he played one of the variations I already thought about.
Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:52 am
by freegame
gaius wrote:
freegame wrote:
I think scans are hidden - you just tell me if I found his hidden stone or not. If not, then that's fine too
So after a scan your opponent does not know if you fount the hidden stone or not... interesting.
I would have expected the scan and result not to be a secret.
From the pro-games I've seen, I'm reasonably certain that you are correct, and that in Batoo the scan location is open.
By the way Laurens, shall we interpret the rule that way in our game?
Oke. So, we are going to have open scans and scan results. This also allows us to handle the scans ourselves, without the need for a third party/moderator.
Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:15 am
by gaius
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 22, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 O X . | $$ | . . m . . . W X X O . | $$ | . . @ . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 22, W: 21 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . W X O X . | $$ | . . m . . . O X X O . | $$ | . . @ . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
my thoughts
still according to plan. the result will be that both of us get a big territory. the komi is largely compensated by his minus move. so the score looks close to me. The hidden move might make the difference in this game. whoever uses it most efficiently will most likely win.
my top left is quite open. a hidden move in there might be very dangerous. If he plays his hidden move at some point I might just have to play an extra defensive move there hoping to counteract his hidden move, without knowing where it is. but I'll think about that again when he played the hidden move.
I havn't been able to take an early lead. I think the game is still close. I have more potential, but black is more solid.
I prefer the bigger board. I'm better at global play than local fighting.
black is now going to take one of my stones. I will then reconsider how to defend the cutting point. maybe I can come up with a better alternative, now that the moves are actually on the board. and I can also maybe read further into the variation.
Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:32 am
by gaius
EDIT: I removed the stone, and reduced white's score by one point because of it.
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . . . O X X . 1 | $$ | . . @ . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . . . O X X . 1 | $$ | . . @ . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Again, only move. If I would capture the other stone, he gets an extra sente move.
I'm somewhat surprised that he prefers this atari over the other atari. He still has a pretty nasty cutting point left but if he fixes it I can take the bottom right. OK, there will still be aji in the bottom right but anyway taking it will be big...
Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:03 am
by freegame
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 21 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . . . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 21 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . . . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
defending at to defend the cut seems too weak. Like I wrote before I'm going to have another look at the situation. I can now read further ahead for this point, than i could do earlier.
I hope my move provokes a cut by black. I have spend a lot of time reading all kind of variation, and I think I can counter the cut and get a good result. The fight will be complex but make the game interesting.
The most likely variation goes like this: (playing @ I will die really easy. I need to defend the stones on top)
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . 4 . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . 3 1 O O X . | $$ | . . . . . 5 2 . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . 6 O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . 4 . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . 3 1 O O X . | $$ | . . . . . 5 2 . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . 6 O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
next it gets a lot harder to read and predict ahead, but i did give it a try. If a I still play later when I defend it is sente because of the cutting point. after 4 black has a problem with the minus point. even if he played it I will be able to live. if he plays b i will play c. now black can defend without playing the minus point, but I still live. If he tries to kill, I will cut taking the minus point and the corner.
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . O . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . X X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . 1 a O O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B 2 c . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . 3 4 . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . 4 . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . 3 1 O O X . | $$ | . . . . . 8 2 5 6 . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . 7 O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
I think the best way for black is to play like below. but this makes the rest of the game rather boring. I can play b and c as follow-ups in this variation. this gives a close game that will be decided in endgame. but I hope he cuts and fights like the diagrams above.
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 23, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . . . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . c . O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B 1 . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . b . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 24, W: 21 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . . . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . . 1 O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Yet again, only move I think. Soo many weaknesses to exploit in white's shape... I am a happy person! Also, depending on the variations, there might be a hidden move coming up from me fairly soon . I don't believe you should use it too early, but if I have 3 different ways to threaten to crush him, that's a 67% chance, and I might just decide to pounce .
I expect him to play something tricky now. But where? I have no idea. Maybe even sacrifice because it enables him to play the plus point in sente?
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 24, W: 21 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 9 . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . . 7 O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . 5 1 O O X . | $$ | . . . . . 6 4 . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . 3 2 O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 24, W: 21 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . 4 . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . 3 1 O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . 2 5 . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:32 am
by gaius
Nice, a fight. Bloodshed is good. I strongly believe baduk, and Batoo as well, are forms of martial arts - that's how intense the battle of the minds can become. "Never give in, never surrender" - that should be your motto while playing. And that is why I believe the cut is the only move considerable in this position. Only when you are ahead, you can back down a little; and I am certainly not that much ahead yet.
Note: this does not mean you should overplay everywhere. First get strong, then fight - and if your opponent is strong somewhere, just making sabaki can be more than enough. Useless stones should also be sacrificed! It does mean you should never settle for an inferior result if you can set up an equal fight instead - no matter how complex the fight is.
Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:28 am
by freegame
let the fighting begin
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 24, W: 22 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . . . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . . X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . W . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 26, W: 23 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . W . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . X X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . 1 O . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . . O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
The position is getting tense now, soon there could be hidden moves. Actually I am not so afraid of his hidden move because when he uses it, I will immediately scan at H11 - and at the other side he doesn't have a big choice of kill-all-moves. A few posts ago I was stating that I would now cut, but it doesn't work because white 6 is a clever move:
$$Bcm1 Score - B: 26, W: 23 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . W . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . 5 X X O O X . | $$ | . . . . 6 4 O 1 2 . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . 3 O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 26, W: 24 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . O . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . X X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . . W O . p | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . @ . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . m . . B . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
it's going as expected. no time to back down now.
I'm going to start thinking about using my hidden move somewhere in this fight to try and fool my opponent. But I'm not sure where and how yet. It must not be obvious of course.
I'm really curious about the thoughts of my opponent during this last few moves going into this fight. I still hope i did not miss something and get tricked.
. After I take it, white still has a cutting point which he needs to connect with 4 in the diagramme below. And then I can attack him with 5 which takes away his eyeshape, makes some territory, and has a reasonably logical continuation at the plus point. Can't be bad.
to defend the cut seems too weak. Like I wrote before I'm going to have another look at the situation. I can now read further ahead for this point, than i could do earlier.
@ 
I will die really easy. I need 
to defend the stones on top)
. I don't believe you should use it too early, but if I have 3 different ways to threaten to crush him, that's a 67% chance, and I might just decide to pounce 
.