Page 2 of 14
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:03 am
by EdLee
Trigger accepted:
$$Bm13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm13
For beginners. Descending to
may look nice (trying to remove W's base),
but after
, B has no good reply -- (a) and (b) are
Miai for W, killing B's eye in sente -- and B ends up with a
Weak Group .
Therefore, the
Tiger's Mouth in the game.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:29 am
by TIM82
Probably no more moves from me until evening or tomorrow
- so no hurry in deciding next move
I'm happy with the situation right now
Not sure what Ed should now do, but my gut feeling is on first capping my bottom middle stone, and if I would just protect, then building around middle right hoshi.
I think I will resist that cap if it comes to that, but have to think carefully through how. Otherwise my position would be quite flat, and bottom middle and left corner are too far from each other to fix easily with just one move?
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:34 am
by EdLee
Thanks, Tim. It's 02:32 am here as I type this. Maybe no more from me tonight, either.
For beginners. One idea (among others) of
Kosumi was that B had
Miai of (a) direction and (b) direction:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BIn the game, the sequence up to
had a similar function:
Miai of (a) direction and (b) direction --
since W decided to settle his top group with
, B has the option to take the (a) direction:
$$Bm15
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm15
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:13 pm
by EdLee
$$Bm17
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm17
I have almost zero experience with this move, so if nothing else, lots to learn.
Some thoughts and variations:
If W gets
, it looks like a nice formation for W:
$$B
tenuki
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , 2 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
The left side already has 3 W stones, all on the 3rd line -- not sure about how big it is.
If
, W gets to push B around while building nice stones on the outside?
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
I noticed two things about the low 1-space approach
:
- W has (a) and (b) miai
- W(a) works very nicely with
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:31 pm
by The Intrepid
@EdLee
Did you consider approaching on the 4th line at
and, if you did, why did you prefer to play at "a" instead?
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:12 pm
by Loons
Good game, guys :).
Hm.
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=2399
Re: Re:
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:50 am
by TIM82
Won't be making a move until evening, but some thoughts for observers.
I think the position was quite hard to find a really good-looking move for B. Ed's move is nice (though not my style), any closer and I could both pincer and mke a 2-point extension at the same time. Now pincer seems too close to my stone at bottom.
Worth considering locally seem to be at least A and B. Tenuki to split right seems most interesting at first glance however.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BHere the question is will black get too much out of pursuing lone white stone. Seems so.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B This seems much better. My bottom stone will be laying there, waiting patiently for the weak black group to appear. Black might be able to get stable group in the corner, but then I should be able to enclose pretty well. Sadly, probably gote.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BBlack can't do too much in bottom left, an example below (C continues after 9). With right side split (a or b, not sure yet), getting sente to return there (or getting sente there and returning to this corner, playing option B above) seems nice.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:29 am
by EdLee
Re: Re:
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:14 am
by TIM82
Had a flash of insight, couldn't resist, back to work asap
$$Bcm17
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm17
Splitting right seemed nice, but followups were not that interesting. Additionally, if I split, Ed could play C or this move, and I don't like that at all. This move is big, and will be good whether I play A or Ed B in lower left.
$$Bcm17
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm17Funny game, usually I'm trying to get all the influence, leaving these 3rd line plays for opponent. I'm bit worried about overall lowness of my positions - would be willing to trade some points for influence soon. Happily Ed is not too imposing influencewise either now, but something to keep an eye on.
Edits for fixing move numbers.
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:36 am
by EdLee
The joseki sequence starting with the 1-space pincer
would be different from the real game:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:58 am
by EdLee
$$Bm19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm19
Perfect time (as good as any) to study the joseki and variations starting with this attach (with
being 3 spaces away).
Re: Re:
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:15 am
by TIM82
$$Bcm19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm19Trigger:
$$Bcm19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm19
Re: Re:
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:25 am
by TIM82
Oh yeah, here's the plan. I expect Ed to resist at some point though. To 7 in corner, then tenuki to right finally.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:43 am
by EdLee
Trigger accepted, and thanks for having no other hidden tags in that post so I could quote it!
$$Bm19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm19
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:51 am
by EdLee
$$Bm27
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm27
may look nice (trying to remove W's base),
, B has no good reply -- (a) and (b) are Miai for W, killing B's eye in sente -- and B ends up with a Weak Group.
in the game.
- so no hurry in deciding next move 
, B has the option to take the (a) direction:
would be different from the real game:
being 3 spaces away).