Kicked? Banned?

[hyperpape]

Bantari, I think multi-game sites are great for introducing people, but yahoo is a terrible site to play go. I suppose I haven't been on since 2006...things haven't gotten better, have they?

[Kirby]

Bantari, I think multi-game sites are great for introducing people, but yahoo is a terrible site to play go. I suppose I haven't been on since 2006...things haven't gotten better, have they?

I figured Bantari had a point - not that yahoo was a quality go site - but that it was a way to attract people to go.

A lot more people know about yahoo games than about KGS or IGS.

Kind of like when you go to a bookstore and see a poorly written go book for beginners. It's cool that it's there, because it may expose someone to go for the first time. After they get hooked, they can drain all of their money on more serious go book vendors.

[EdLee]

I stand by the argument that there is no freedom of speech there, ever, ...

What Bantari said. Two common errors:

( freedom of speech ) means ( Unlimited freedom of speech ). This is false. (See Bantari's example, or "fire!/gun!" in a movie theater.)

Not ( Unlimited freedom of speech ) means ( No freedom of speech ). This is also false. (Logic error, or, as Bantari said, maybe lack of maturity, or both.)

I find it interesting that Kiseido as a company seems to be known for its bad attitude, they are also difficult to order books from, ...

I don't know what you're talking about.
Maybe you had a bad experience with them, but I have made multiple purchases with Kiseido,
from different parts of the world, including a direct sale from Mr. Bozulich in person,
and I have had nothing but good experience with them.

[speedchase]

What Bantari said. Two common errors:

( freedom of speech ) means ( Unlimited freedom of speech ). This is false. (See Bantari's example, or "fire!/gun!" in a movie theater.)

Not ( Unlimited freedom of speech ) means ( No freedom of speech ). This is also false. (Logic error, or, as Bantari said, maybe lack of maturity, or both.)\

I have to disagree with this sentiment! What do you think freedom means? I agree that freedom of speech is not (and should not be) protected on go servers, you cannot reasonably believe that it exists. It does not.

[EdLee]

What do you think freedom means?

What do YOU think freedom means? You think it means it's OK to scream "Fire!" in a crowded theater?

[speedchase]

What do YOU think freedom means? You think it means it's OK to scream "Fire!" in a crowded theater?

I like definition 3 from dictionary.com "the power to determine action without restraint". I might substitute power for ability. It isn't OK to scream fire in a movie theater, but the point of freedom is that nobody gets to tell you not to anyway. Freedom isn't concerned with what is OK, only that everyone gets to do what they want. If you can only do what ever you want as long as everyone agrees that isn't freedom.

Ps. America obviously doesn't have freedom of speech. I don't think we should change that, but I think we should Amend the constitution to say what we mean.

edit: it occurs to me that the above statement is of questionable permissibility because it is related to politics. That wasn't my intent, I was trying to use an example to clarify my point. If a admin objects, I wouldn't mind if it were taken down.

[Tryss]

With your definition, freedom never exist.

If I want to kill you, and you don't want to die, there is a conflict between our respective 'freedom'.

"My freedom ends where someone else's begins."


Because we're not alone, but live in society, freedom is always a compromise.

[speedchase]

With your definition, freedom never exist.

If I want to kill you, and you don't want to die, there is a conflict between our respective 'freedom'.

"My freedom ends where someone else's begins."


Because we're not alone, but live in society, freedom is always a compromise.

There can be Freedom of _____. Obviously no one should Freedom to do anything. Freedom of speech is possible. Freedom of information is possible.

edit: Freedom doesn't mean you get what you want. It just means you can do what you want.

[jts]

With your definition, freedom never exist.

If I want to kill you, and you don't want to die, there is a conflict between our respective 'freedom'.

"My freedom ends where someone else's begins."


Because we're not alone, but live in society, freedom is always a compromise.

There can be Freedom of _____. Obviously no one should Freedom to do anything. Freedom of speech is possible. Freedom of information is possible.

edit: Freedom doesn't mean you get what you want. It just means you can do what you want.

Right. You can type whatever you want into your computer, but that won't make it show up on the forum.

[speedchase]

Right. You can type whatever you want into your computer, but that won't make it show up on the forum.

Well I have said several times that I don't think freedom of speech should be granted. I just think that we should be using accurate terminology in our discussions.

[Bantari]

To cut to the chase, to those who think 'freedom' means 'i can do anything i want', I can say - look at it like that:
Yes, you can do anything you want. But then the world can do anything it wants to you in return. Freedom works both ways.

If you don't like the consequences, think before doing. But you are free to do, of course. Your choice.

[speedchase]

To cut to the chase, to those who think 'freedom' means 'i can do anything i want',

Having freedom means being able to do whatever you want. Having freedom of something (speech for example) means being able to do what ever you want with respect to that thing.

Yes, you can do anything you want.

No you can't. Don't be absurd. A society where anyone can do anything they want to anyone would collapse instantly.

But then the world can do anything it wants to you in return. Freedom works both ways.
If you don't like the consequences, think before doing. But you are free to do, of course. Your choice.

This isn't true either. Part of Freedom is the ability to avoid punishment.

[yoyoma]

speedchase, can you give an example of a place that meets your definition of freedom of speech?

[speedchase]

To my knowledge none exist (except the comments on youtube videos). And no, I don't think that means that I should revise my definition.

[Alguien]

speedchase, can you give an example of a place that meets your definition of freedom of speech?

4chan.

And no. Don't go there to check.