Strategy vs. Theory of Strategy

[ez4u]

Has anyone else noticed that literature by native English writers tends to focus on the theory of strategy rather than the strategy itself, and seems to be more of list of translated definitions and descriptions of techniques rather than actual strategy. IE sente is, miai is, ko is... etc. Rather than with sente you can grab territory, make a moyo etc.

Well, it looks like the problem is your IGS 8kyu level. Bury all your strategy books you can't understand yet. Do a lot of tsumego, play a lot of games and after a year try to look again at this books you are refering to. Because all problems of beginners are their lack of understanding what they really need to train, and what should be left for the future.
Why are you reading about strategy if your reading, your joseki and l&d sucks? Strategy books are overrated by westerners.

If you don't understand why the books are written as they are - it means you should take more time before you try to read them. Do the basics first.

For me joseki, l&d, tesuji are only a way to execute a strategy, and I only need those joseki, l&d, and tesuji that are relevant to the particular strategy that I am exectuing. So 90% of tesuji, l&d, and joseki are irrelevant.

I think that we all need knowledge of the basics in order to choose reasonable strategies. If instead we are choosing strategies without reference to the position on the board and its various tactical relationships, i. e. tesuji, l&d, joseki, etc., we are playing blind.

[hyperpape]

For me joseki, l&d, tesuji are only a way to execute a strategy, and I only need those joseki, l&d, and tesuji that are relevant to the particular strategy that I am exectuing. So 90% of tesuji, l&d, and joseki are irrelevant.

I hope more people know that..imagine only having to learn one tenth of the life & death!

[SmoothOper]

No, what I had in mind was things like your 90% quote. You dismiss learning things without knowing about their usefulness.

Oh I am sure many of them are useful in some context contrived or otherwise, but without a strategy most are useless, furthermore for any given strategy only a subset will be useful, which renders the English text with little or no strategy well irrelevant.

[coderboy]

Pre-made strategy is only useful if your opponent plays along with you, I've found in many games that I had to alter my plans, it is a two player game after all. Rolling with the punches and being more adaptable seems to be how strong players play the game. Or am I wrong?

Edit: Obviously having a strategy is important, but like the famous quote goes: "In battle not even the best laid plans can survive contact with the enemy."

[speedchase]

Pre-made strategy is only useful if your opponent plays along with you, I've found in many games that I had to alter my plans, it is a two player game after all. Rolling with the punches and being more adaptable seems to be how strong players play the game. Or am I wrong?

Edit: Obviously having a strategy is important, but like the famous quote goes: "In battle not even the best laid plans can survive contact with the enemy."

I agree completely strategy without tactics is 20kyu at best, tactics without strategy is Tygem 7dan

[hyperpape]

I thought I'd seen good trolls before, but smoothoper may be the best.

[lobotommy]

@smoothoper
1) in common opinion of strong players 90% of go is reading.
2) you state that strategy is everything(90%) and reading is almost nothing(10%).
3) you are a weak go player

How many tsumego have you done in last week? I have done about 2000. I'm currently 2 dan on tygem/wbaduk/kgs.
How do you think which approach works better? Your or mine?

Peace. Work hard. Burn strategy books.

[RobertJasiek]

1) in common opinion of strong players 90% of go is reading.

This is not a common opinion. For me, reading consumes up to about 90% of the thinking time (but can at times consume as little as almost 0%), but reading (including positional judgement reading) makes up for only up to 50% of the decision making. The more relevant part is strategic decision making and its choice of what to read at all.

Burn strategy books.

Study strategy, tactics, judgement AND your own psychology.

[xed_over]

I thought I'd seen good trolls before, but smoothoper may be the best.

have you all forgotten his views on java programming and why kgs doesn't make any money because of it? (http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... f=8&t=6856 , http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =10&t=6758)

[hyperpape]

I thought I'd seen good trolls before, but smoothoper may be the best.

have you all forgotten his views on java programming and why kgs doesn't make any money because of it? (http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... f=8&t=6856 , http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =10&t=6758)

I'd reviewed some of his older work, yes.

[lobotommy]

1) in common opinion of strong players 90% of go is reading.

This is not a common opinion. For me, reading consumes up to about 90% of the thinking time (but can at times consume as little as almost 0%), but reading (including positional judgement reading) makes up for only up to 50% of the decision making. The more relevant part is strategic decision making and its choice of what to read at all.

Burn strategy books.

Study strategy, tactics, judgement AND your own psychology.

Good luck with teaching all this stuff to 8kyu with no wish to improve his reading skills. First reading, then the rest. I study all this stuff and one thing I know for sure - if your reading sucks then nothing can help you.
You don't understand the problem smoothoper has. It's obvious he reads too much strategy books and thinks it will make him stronger. Sorry to say but that's a wishful thinking at best. He need to train the basics, and reading/tesuji/tsumego is all the basic stuff he need to improve before all other more sophisticated stuff.

[palapiku]

I thought I'd seen good trolls before, but smoothoper may be the best.

Agreed. It's a pleasure to observe a pro in action.

[Shaddy]

What really makes it for me is his persistence. Lesser trolls would have long since given up.

[tapir]

How many tsumego have you done in last week? I have done about 2000. I'm currently 2 dan on tygem/wbaduk/kgs.
How do you think which approach works better? Your or mine?

Peace. Work hard. Burn strategy books.

This is about as ignorant as the opposite view, as you would expect from people advocating book burning.

P.S, I find it mildly disturbing that name calling gets likes in this thread.

[Bantari]

1) in common opinion of strong players 90% of go is reading.

This is not a common opinion. For me, reading consumes up to about 90% of the thinking time (but can at times consume as little as almost 0%), but reading (including positional judgement reading) makes up for only up to 50% of the decision making. The more relevant part is strategic decision making and its choice of what to read at all.

To make your argument valid you must first:

1.
Demonstrate that you are indeed a strong player. In the context of your club or country, you might be. In the context of the world, you are very far from it. So - it is not clear that you are part of the 'strong players' group in the context of this thread.

2.
Demonstrate that even if you ARE a strong player in the context of this thread, you are also a TYPICAL one. I.e. not an outlier. This is important, I think. Judging by what/how you communicate, which gives some clues into what/how you might actually think - I am not sure you are a typical ANYTHING. No offense intended.

Just my 2c.