Young talent vs Top pro

[shapenaji]

That game is incredible, the kid is just downright unkillable.

So many of the moves, I was sure he was going to get slaughtered, and then he lives...

Sakata re-incarnated?

[oren]

You need an account to watch (one day for $3 or so), but some people may be interested.

http://gogameguru.com/baduk-tv-videos/b ... ualifiers/

[Magicwand]

Same goes for the other way around: Maybe Lee Changho would wipe the floor with 9p players now if he was born in 2000.

i highly doubt that.
players now are much stronger than before and that is the facts.

Why do you suppose this is? Can they read better, or is it that they have their predecessors such as Lee to learn from?

if you look at lee's prime.. cho hoonhyun, seo bongsoo, yoo changhyuk were only players that were able to get titles.
during those time seo bongsoo had hard time beating lee.
but he was still successful because he beat all other professionals.
then how weak are other professionals? answser is very weak. weaker than shin js for sure.

another thought..
lee changed game into endgame oriented game which were not the trend back then.
but not professionals who can not play good endgame will not be successful.
shin and many other young players now knows how to play endgame much better than other professionals of past.

not only endgame improved over time...but also new josekies developed making the game much harder for submisive style like lee to win. players now plays much better, mistakefree game. that is the facts.

[lemmata]

Lee Changho rant time!

It could be said that Lee Changho was so strong that very few players understood his go. Don't take my word for it. Lee Sedol says that other pros are wrong to focus on Lee Chanho's endgame and that Lee Changho's was better at the middle game than anyone else. People like to say that he made the endgame more important, and that is true. However, I feel that statement is a indirectly dismissive of his go. There were pros before him, like Ishida, who were deadly at the endgame. Shusaku's Castle Games are still used by some pros to study the endgame. What is often said is that Lee Changho revolutionized the usage of thickness in relation to planning the entirety of the game, rather than just one phase of it. Seo Bongsoo hinted at this when he said that Lee Changho can count points in the center.

The youngster Shin was very impressive yesterday, but the older Lee Changho simply didn't have enough time to make the positional judgment on a compromise that would have led to a favorable game. Although Shin surprised Lee with some good moves, Lee chose to go for the fight that lost him the game, because he didn't want to take a compromise whose outcome he didn't have time to evaluate. Some of Lee's time-sujis hurt him in that fight as well. If there were an extra hour of main time, it would have been Lee's game to lose.

Lee Changho might not win tournaments anymore, but he still is tough matchup for any player in the world despite 1) his age (only top Korean player born in the 70s), 2) much shorter time settings that are used these days (The old Korean title matches had 7-ish hours of main time. Now, even world championships only give 3 hours of main time), and 3) the fact that the current top players grew up studying his games.

Yeah, so I think that Lee Changho would have been better than everyone else even if he was born in 2000 as long as he had the sharpness of a younger mind and the same opportunities that are available to pros today. After all, he is still beating top pros in important games despite all the disadvantages he has. Sure, he might not win 140 titles because players are stronger today, but he would still outclass everyone. Sure, the pros today are stronger than they used to be, but how many of them are capable of changing the paradigm of go?

For a legend, Lee Changho doesn't seem to get the respect that he deserves sometimes. Part of it is that he was always framed in the media narrative as the diligent student because Cho Hunhyun was put into the genius role.

Respect Lee Changho. OR ELSE

PS: What is most impressive about Shin is that he didn't have a teacher until last year. This is kind of like Seo Bongsoo (another player who doesn't get enough respect).

[Lucian]

Lee Changho rant time!

2) much shorter time settings that are used these days (The old Korean title matches had 7-ish hours of main time. Now, even world championships only give 3 hours of main time)

While I agree to most of your comments, I will disagree with the time limits point of view. Just check the KBS winners from the past five years

I will post an inspiring game from two weeks ago: Lee Changho wins against Lee Sedol after a spectacular game. And although I didn't have a chance to see professional comments about this game, I feel it was a really good game for Lee Changho.

[hyperpape]

You know, I'm not sure you can compare blitz to short mid-level time limits. Blitz is very much about instinct. A game with two hours main time isn't about instinct, but it's still not possible to make the same kind of careful strategies as with six hours.

[Dusk Eagle]

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=2504

I think the lesson to be learned is to always spend a byo-yomi period making sure that the time-suji you're about to play actually works.

[lemmata]

I will post an inspiring game from two weeks ago: Lee Changho wins against Lee Sedol after a spectacular game.

Hey, he's Lee Changho, so he's gotta have some good days, too. Then again, I freely admit that I am a biased fan. Thanks for the game record. I hope that he wins that KBS title again.

[Mef]

For a legend, Lee Changho doesn't seem to get the respect that he deserves sometimes. Part of it is that he was always framed in the media narrative as the diligent student because Cho Hunhyun was put into the genius role.

Something I've mentioned before (and an assertion I still stand by) is that Lee Changho's big "problem" is that his career was not tragically cut short. If he had disappeared in 2001 after winning the Ing and being on top of the go world for nearly a decade we could only speculate if anyone could ever have beaten him and what heights of greatness he might achieve...Instead there is nothing to wonder about. We know exactly how great he ended up, and we get plenty of games from him once he was past his peak. From a "legend" standpoint it takes a little bit of the magic out of it to be given a reminder that he is in fact, human.

[trout]

2nd game;
Shin Minjoon(1p 1999) defeated Choi Chulhan by 2.5.


Shin Minjoon

3rd game Lee Sedol vs Byun Sangil(2p 1997) 1/13 1pm(Korea)

[cdybeijing]

Seems very promising for Korean go, even if these are just single games.

[Lucian]

For a legend, Lee Changho doesn't seem to get the respect that he deserves sometimes. Part of it is that he was always framed in the media narrative as the diligent student because Cho Hunhyun was put into the genius role.

Something I've mentioned before (and an assertion I still stand by) is that Lee Changho's big "problem" is that his career was not tragically cut short. If he had disappeared in 2001 after winning the Ing and being on top of the go world for nearly a decade we could only speculate if anyone could ever have beaten him and what heights of greatness he might achieve...Instead there is nothing to wonder about. We know exactly how great he ended up, and we get plenty of games from him once he was past his peak. From a "legend" standpoint it takes a little bit of the magic out of it to be given a reminder that he is in fact, human.

Well, let's consider the international results from the 2002-2012 period, from all the major non-blitz tournaments (ING, Samsung, LG, Fujitsu, Chunlan, Toyota Oza, BC Card).

Lee Sedol has played in 16 finals.
Lee Changho has played in 14 finals
Gu Li has played in 10 finals.
Chang Hao has played in 7 finals.

Besides this four players, no other player has reached a final more than 3-4 times.

So even when he is past his peak, he is second only to a Lee Sedol in his prime (arguably the world player of the decade). This is how good Lee Changho is.

[trout]

3rd game;
Lee Sedol defeated Byun Sangil(2p 1997) by 0.5.

[jts]

Is there some sort of unwritten rule about little kids wearing parkas to their games?

[lovelove]

Is there some sort of unwritten rule about little kids wearing parkas to their games?

Not only those kids. Those parkas, called "padding" in Konglish, are kind of uniformizing among Korean students.