For really studying joseki, I agree with gowan; you want to understand the meaning behind the moves or else you are wasting your time.
For a beginner though, I think it's worth knowing a handful of two-movers as well because everyone has to respond to what his opponent plays. Memorizing these are fine as you can also consider them as kinds of basic shapes. When you encounter them in joseki, you can play a shape move. That way you have a position to start from without making a total mess of it straight away.
(Edit: I originally didn't notice that the white stones were shifted up one line in the following diagram, and I don't want to leave a grossly incorrect diagram, so I fixed it).
In Japanese this is called tsuke-hiki, and it is a common flow-of-stones pattern. It also occurs in the middlegame. In this 3-4 joseki form, both White and Black make a base for their stones to complete the joseki.
These are things that as a beginner you can use a lot without getting bogged down in variations.
... and this emphasizes the side. But either can be perfectly acceptable in some board situation. The key is to pressure the white stone. Now, as a matter of fact,
You correctly identify that this gives B a good move (the hane at the head of stone stones) that W will find painful. So (all else equal) W can try to avoid this by extending in the other direction. By reading ahead three moves, you brainstorm about how your opponent is likely to reply to your first move.
This leaves W with nowhere to run! So instead you'll expect him to play at A, and then you need to read to see whether Black's powerful hane at the head of two stones can be played.
What I was trying to suggest is that you should think about the corners in the exact same way you think about sequences along the sides or in the middle. Read ahead, one move at a time. Once you've played it out a lot it will become familiar, and you'll be acquainted with all the normal ins-and-outs of the sequence. At that point, reading a book like 38 Basic Joseki will help you drill in why some sequences work, why others fail, what weakness each side is aiming at later in the game, and so on.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:47 pm
by Bill Spight
At your stage I would not study joseki, per se, at all. As gowan said, what do you do when your opponent does not play joseki. You will be thrust upon your own understanding sooner or later. Playing by the book does not really help you develop understanding.
Here is my suggestion. You get what seems to be a bad result in a corner. Presumably you thought about your play during the game. If not, think about it during your replay. If you still are not satisfied, play around with the position, explore possibilities. Remember, children are champion learners, and they play a lot. If you still are not satisfied, look it up. Maybe you got a reasonable result, after all. Maybe you missed a tesuji. Joseki books will probably tell you. Online resources are not quite as reliable, but are also useful. You can also use databases to see what pros played in similar situations.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:16 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Part of the problem, IMHO, is the fact that you are playing mostly 4-4 josekis. We all had this problem, I think. We get a lopsided view of joseki. If you play 3-4 or 3-3 or maybe even 5-3 in addition to the 4-4, I think you will learn a lot more about what stones do in the corner, and where they do it.
If your opponents will allow it, play with some of your handicap stones on 3-4 or 3-3 points.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:21 pm
by Bill Spight
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Part of the problem, IMHO, is the fact that you are playing mostly 4-4 josekis. We all had this problem, I think. We get a lopsided view of joseki. If you play 3-4 or 3-3 or maybe even 5-3 in addition to the 4-4, I think you will learn a lot more about what stones do in the corner, and where they do it.
If your opponents will allow it, play with some of your handicap stones on 3-4 or 3-3 points.
And don't forget the 3-5, 4-5, and 5-5.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:07 pm
by xed_over
Bill Spight wrote:At your stage I would not study joseki, per se, at all. As gowan said, what do you do when your opponent does not play joseki.
I missed where gowan said that, but they're both right.
I remember trying to learn a few joseki early on, but got completely frustrated when my opponents never responded with joseki moves. And it never seemed to matter if my opponents invaded my corner at the 3-3 point, or if I did theirs -- it never seemed to work out in my favor.
Then I was inspired by one Pro who prided himself on not having ever learned any joseki. That's how I want to play
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:15 pm
by PeterPeter
xed_over wrote:I remember trying to learn a few joseki early on, but got completely frustrated when my opponents never responded with joseki moves.
To this, and similar comments: I am fine with this. It means my opponent has made the first mistake, and I should now have the upper hand. Are games not won by making fewer mistakes than your opponent?
These moves you happen to know are fine, either because they're joseki or (better) because - as you observed - they give white quite cramped shape and black a powerful hane at the head of two stones.
Moves like this are just asking white to push and (later) cut, and so on.
You can see that, really, there aren't that many moves to be played. Locally, there's only one thing to do: if your opponent plays next to a single stone of yours on a diagonal, unless you have a very good reason (because of other surrounding stones), you must attack that stone by contacting it, otherwise on its next move it will attack you by contacting you. Then what? Well, as jts's post points out, the locally good move is usually to withdraw (and you can continue to build your wall or whatever you like); in the case of this joseki, it's forced to slide alongside your stones, and let you hane, which is usually locally good for you as long as it doesn't get cut to pieces. Check that it doesn't. And that's it - you've done enough reading to know that you've probably given up the corner and got a wall. Settle your shape and move elsewhere. It's that kind of semi-intuitive reading that's required in large open positions.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:39 pm
by xed_over
PeterPeter wrote:
xed_over wrote:I remember trying to learn a few joseki early on, but got completely frustrated when my opponents never responded with joseki moves.
To this, and similar comments: I am fine with this. It means my opponent has made the first mistake, and I should now have the upper hand. Are games not won by making fewer mistakes than your opponent?
That is indeed true -- my problem was, I didn't know how to punish their joseki mistakes, because I was only familiar with the basic pattern, and didn't understand what each move intended to accomplish.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:23 pm
by Bill Spight
PeterPeter wrote:
xed_over wrote:I remember trying to learn a few joseki early on, but got completely frustrated when my opponents never responded with joseki moves.
To this, and similar comments: I am fine with this. It means my opponent has made the first mistake, and I should now have the upper hand. Are games not won by making fewer mistakes than your opponent?
It does not mean that your opponent has made the first mistake. First, joseki books do not typically show all joseki, of which there are thousands. Second, what is considered joseki changes over time. This means two things. One, your opponent may have found a better play. (Admittedly very unlikely. ) Two, there are likely to be non-joseki plays that, even if they are mistakes, are very small mistakes, that will have little effect upon the game. Third, the choice of joseki matters. You may have played joseki, but have already made the first mistake, by playing the wrong joseki. Fourth, joseki are only roughly equal. Fifth, it is often the case that the right play is to deviate from joseki. There are quite a number of plays that are not joseki, but are situational plays, which are better in certain situations. Your opponent may have made one of these plays, or you may have missed one of them.
Znosko-Borovsky (in chess) says not to make opening plays automatically. If you learn and play joseki, you are playing on auto-pilot. Against weak opponents, you may come out ahead. But it is a bad habit to get into.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:19 pm
by billywoods
Bill's point number 3 seems to be the important one in my view: there are joseki choices that are huge global mistakes.
This is really the point for a beginner: you shouldn't learn and play these awesome equal-result moves, because not all equal results are equal. (That's obvious when you think of what a joseki is, actually: it's sequences of moves that professionals play. Firstly, they are "equal" only in the sense that both black and white think they've got the best result possible. Secondly, professionals still read deeply move-by-move, and will only make a move when it fits the rest of the board: joseki are situational 'from birth'.) You can't avoid learning them through experience, but you should never neglect to read; when you are strong enough to understand a joseki, you'll 'know' it anyway.
I still only understand a few very basic joseki, and even then only locally. I still don't know how to use thickness.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:41 am
by Amelia
I would not worry at all aboout memorizing or studying long variations on any of those, but just having some feel of a few basic options and typical outcomes after the first three or so moves.
Agree. I found a couple of basic josekis were useful to me as a way of learning how to settle stones. But 38 Josekis is too complicated for that.
When something comes up in my game and I wonder afterwards what I could have done better, I look it up there: http://www.brugo.be/
I like it because it says if variations are simples or leading to complications. It also shows wrong moves in red (and rates from small mistakes to big mistakes and how the opponent should respond to the mistake).
Bill's point number 3 seems to be the important one in my view: there are joseki choices that are huge global mistakes.
That's true too, obviously. The next step is to learn when to use a joseki and when not. But I think not knowing any joseki doesn't protect a DDK from wrong evaluation of the board and mistakes on topics like direction of play. Just getting a feeling for "what do I do if my opponent pincers? Oh, I can invade the corner, never thought of that!" is quite enough at our low level, and for this joseki can kinda help, IMO. It doesn't mean that you're allowed to stop thinking though.
Re: How to get started with joseki?
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:38 am
by peppernut
amnal wrote: Edit: More constructively, perhaps peppernut meant this one:
gives B a good move (the hane at the head of stone stones) that W will find painful. So (all else equal) W can try to avoid this by extending in the other direction. By reading ahead three moves, you brainstorm about how your opponent is likely to reply to your first move.
is a crazy move, and 
starts a local fight: 2 white stones against 1 black stone. White has a clear advantage here, and 
) Two, there are likely to be non-joseki plays that, even if they are mistakes, are very small mistakes, that will have little effect upon the game. Third, the choice of joseki matters. You may have played joseki, but have already made the first mistake, by playing the wrong joseki. Fourth, joseki are only roughly equal. Fifth, it is often the case that the right play is to deviate from joseki. There are quite a number of plays that are not joseki, but are situational plays, which are better in certain situations. Your opponent may have made one of these plays, or you may have missed one of them.