Life In 19x19

I posted this in the other AGA thread, but here it would actually be on topic, and I was curious what others thought of it.

What I would like to see is a cycle of Congress between say three or four locations, perhaps one in each time zone. This would allow a location to build in certain key infrastructure elements. Within three or four years, a good deal of the elements in planning would remain unchanged. Housing, venues, staff would of course evolve but at least the starting point would be similar. A local staff could adapt to venue closings, staff departures, whatever. Most importantly, it would be in the back of their minds that this thing was coming back in a few years and steps could be taken as problems arise.
Now, this doesn't do much spread the knowledge to the towns and cities and that aren't one of the four. But there are solutions to that as well. Say a local TD for the Open, with two assistants (one local and one or two guests TD's) to shadow him/her and run the smaller events through the week.

By having a more solid base like this Congresses will be able to grow again. At 500 attendees (or thereabouts) it really stretched the limits of our "energetic" (if I do say so myself) club. I don't see how you could grow into events that hosted a thousand or more on this model.

A following post called me misinformed and untrue. I give great respect to that person, but I am disheartened that he doubts my authenticity. I'm deleting my suggestions so that others will not be skewed by what I wrote. Sorry for the inconvenience.

A few comments--

Ratings: the AGA system is an Elo system, just with more digits of precision than you're used to. The additional sigma parameter is a large improvement over Elo's original system, improving accuracy.

Membership fees: I think this is currently the bulk of AGA funding...

I agree about chapter services. When you register a chapter, they send you the same thing you get when you join individually; I would much rather have gotten a pamphlet explaining how to do administrative things and telling me who does what in the organization, so I would know what to do when I have a problem.

wfrontiers wrote:It might be useful to put out some general categories:
* Membership
I'm really curious about the membership fees. I know this is a great turn-off to many members. I heard whispers that a lot of high school go clubs couldn't afford the membership fees (one told me that his school scrounged to raise $500 to pay for their new members, even with the youth discount. The reason was that they were able to get limited aid from AGF, but still needed equipment. The club ended up bankrupting itself, and one of the largest high school go clubs is close to extinction.)

Just had to comment on this one, both because it is totally misinformed, and completely untrue. The price of AGA Youth Membership is $10 a year, which actually doesn't even cover our costs for the services provided. The school in question would have had to register 50 players to reach $500. I know for a fact that no school in the US has ever registered anywhere near that many kids. The AGF does not require AGA membership for any of our services, and we provide free equipment to start clubs, and then sell additional equipment at cost. Both we and the AGA actively support youth clubs, and we neither require nor expect schools to join as chapters, or to register their members. Any school in the US that was able to raise funds would be able to double the value of those funds by using AGF Matching Funds, which would buy them $400 worth of equipment for only $200. Last year, we didn't even require AGA membership to participate in the school teams tourney, and in prior years, we gave free membership to any new members who wanted to join to participate in that tourney.

The adult membership, at $35, is also a great deal. Not only do members get free commented games every week in the EJ, but they can play in as many rated events as they want, anywhere in the country, and receive the annual Yearbook as well. All of this aside the POINT of AGA membership is to help spread Go in this country. Your annual dues help fund everything from the EJ to the Go Congress, the various tourneys, and also help support youth programs. To paraphrase John Kennedy: Ask not what the AGA can do for you, ask what you can do for the AGA.

I'm not sure if these have been mentioned, but here's a few suggestions in terms of what I'd like to dream about happening with the AGA/ Go in general. Let me preface this by saying, I know my ideas are a rough sketch, and I know I probably do not have all the information available to me. I plan to read through the minutes and various AGA documents at work to catch up, but until then, here are a few suggestions. At the very least, it might bring up an interesting discussion:

The first one is because I'm not entirely sure of how much is done between the AGA and other board games' organization. I would like to see if it's possible for the AGA to team up with a chess foundation, and have a dual tourney. You might not have the biggest turnout in comparison, but I think you will likely get more people interested in Go. Especially these people who might have heard about the game, but were not interested in trying it out. If the equipment is brought to them, they might be more likely to try things out. Of course, there's probably quite a bit of man power involved in this, but the Go community is friendly. I would assume many chess players might watch a few games, and even ask to be taught the basic rules. The rest should follow along.

The above can be applied to any type of game. Poker, Bridge, etc. There's really quite a group of players out there who would be interested in a game such a this. I'd say it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to organize a sort of combined effort.

The secondary benefit is that it would most likely be cheaper with a partner than without one.

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Another suggestion is for the Go Congress. I do not know if it's a viable option at the moment, but I think adding consistency to the Go congress is a positive thing. If anyone knows of PAX(Penny Arcade Expo), then you will see where I am going with this:

Go congress should be at a fixed location. Sure you can have alternating coasts, but in the same sense, it should be a fixed location in these different coasts. Has this been discussed before? I was speaking to someone who told me there are no main coordinators of Go congresses. That type of position, if anyone is willing, would probably needed to be added in. I am thinking of something like one(two?) for the east coast, and one(two?) for the west coast. I would say that as many as is needed. I think a static congress in the long run is a lot better in terms of attendance factors, planning for the attendees, overall price, and the overall cost. It's a lot easier to plan one or two years ahead when you know the location will never change. I would also guess to say that the pricing would be cheaper for both the attendees, and the AGA. When there's a static location, the AGA can book early, and most likely have discounts open to you(the AGA) for booking every other year or so in advance.

As for what locations you can consider, I am not too sure about the pricing for various venues. Maybe AGA members who have researched it can offer concrete suggestions. For the West Coast location, I would say Portland/ Seattle/ somewhere in California. In terms of East Coast, around the Maryland area would be a good place. States like Delaware, Virginia, New Jersey, etc. I think overall, these are all close enough to famous destinations that people can plan a vacation around them for their families as well.

Overall, I believe it's a big change, and I'm not entirely sure if it's possible to do in the amount of time you are looking for, but I thought the idea is interesting to get out there. I think overall, it would be beneficial to look at this option. It is available, and I do not believe it would be harmful for the AGA to look at it.


Again, let me reiterate that I am just looking at this as a rough sketch, because I do not know about the numbers, or the immediate goals the AGA plans for Go congress. Mainly, I'm hoping that it will bring about a discussion, either here or in the AGA meetings about this idea.

-edit-

After reading the previous post, It seems I am not the only one who would like to see a change like the above for congress.(uglyboxer, oren, and John Fairbairn also mentioned something similar). Also considering the older posts, I should have taken some time out to clean this up. I hope it doesn't detract from people reading it, but if it does, I understand why.

John Fairbairn wrote:... Would two congresses - one in the east and one int he west - instead of one attract a bigger attendance, on the principle of lower travelling costs? If held at the same time there could be some sort of electronic tie-up.

As one of the people who did initial scouting for locations here in southern California, I really like this idea. We currently have a large enough group that many places are not fit. However, if we were looking for a place half the usual size, we would probably have 5 or 10 times the venues to choose from.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

John Fairbairn wrote:... Would two congresses - one in the east and one int he west - instead of one attract a bigger attendance, on the principle of lower travelling costs? If held at the same time there could be some sort of electronic tie-up.

As one of the people who did initial scouting for locations here in southern California, I really like this idea. We currently have a large enough group that many places are not fit. However, if we were looking for a place half the usual size, we would probably have 5 or 10 times the venues to choose from.

Although, I can understand the allure of this idea, I'm not too sure if having them at the SAME time is a good idea. I think alternating coasts is still workable, more so than two major events such as go congress in one year. Just going by how much of an effort even one congress is per year. I also believe that separating the community, and forcing people to go to one event over another is a bad idea. It's not really what Go congress is about is it?

Redbeard wrote:Please understand, I am not talking about merging KGS ratings with the AGA. I'm talking about holding specific ratings tournaments with AGA rules, hosted on-line.

I am surprised that this even needed to be said. KGS is totally independent of the AGA and the vast majority of players there are not AGA members (and most probably are not even in the USA). It would take a monumental task to determine which games on KGS were between two AGA members and also met other criteria for rating.

I am with Keith on this one. There is nothing wrong with AGA having a separate rating of online AGA-sanctioned games, but it should not be merged with face-to-face ratings. It should be very easy to set up a separate ratings database of online games once the criteria for inclusion are settled.

wfrontiers wrote:* Chapter Services
I think the AGA system is a bit disconnected. I feel that many of the Board Members have lost touch with their constituency and that many do not look for feedback from those in their local vicinity. I'm sure many do a fine job, but it's rather intimidating that the entire AGA policy is being handled by seven individuals total? Well, if you add in the appointed four officer positions, it's eleven - but the populace as a whole can only elect the board members. That is, assuming you have the money to pay for the votes.

I dropped out of the AGA 18 months ago after being a member for over 30 years. I had stopped attending tournaments a long time ago and their was no longer a monthly journal to look forward to, but one of the big reasons I did so was because I felt that there was a huge disconnect between the members and the management. Twenty or more years ago Roger White was the chapter coordinator and he used to travel the country in his RV visiting as many clubs as he could. He stayed with me a couple of times and we were able to talk about how things were going. How many of the current board members get out to meet the chapters? I think that one of the essential requirements of anyone standing for election for the board is that they get out and meet their constituent chapters.

Currently, online qualifiers are rated, right? Are people unhappy with tha situation?

I don't really see the need for or benefit of a separate online rating, unless the AGA starts letting you play online rated games any time you want to, which I don't see happening any time soon. Sure, some people might play a bit stronger or weaker online, but what you had for lunch and how much sleep you got make that much difference, too.

A blitz rating makes sense, as the AGA currently rates only slow games. But would it be worth the administrative overhead? Maybe, if it got people to join the AGA to play in official blitz tournaments...

daniel_the_smith wrote:Currently, online qualifiers are rated, right? Are people unhappy with tha situation?

No, they are not rated currently.

oren wrote:No, they are not rated currently.

Oh, interesting. Man, if I spent a couple hours playing an AGA game I would want credit for it!!

I also like the two Congresses idea but not because travel would necessarily be cheaper. Distance is not always the primary factor in airline ticket prices. I can fly from Boston to LA cheaper than from Boston to Denver and so on. It's all about the hubs. Having Congresses in major hub cities would likely be more helpful with travel costs than anything else - this assumes that most people would fly rather than drive and it doesn't take overseas travel into account.

vash3g wrote:What would everyone like to see the AGA do over the next three to five years?

I gave my own comments earlier - but my wife, who is neither a member of the AGA or a Go player also has one suggestion.

My wife would like to see a future Go Congress take place on a Cruise Ship so that she has reason to take the whole family.

There would be a *lot* of challenges associated with an idea like this - probably it's completely impractical. But... if it worked out somehow, the idea is really attractive. I'll at least mention the idea.

(I've told her to keep her fingers crossed for easy beach access for the 2011 so.cal congress as an alternative.)

My wife would like to see a future Go Congress take place on a Cruise Ship so that she has reason to take the whole family.

There would be a *lot* of challenges associated with an idea like this - probably it's completely impractical. But... if it worked out somehow, the idea is really attractive. I'll at least mention the idea.

The Japanese have done this for years. Pros are invited and tutition and sightseeing are combined. I don't know if serious tournaments are also held - maybe the Mai Tais are an impediment but, hic, who cares?

At first blush it may seem impractical for a western clientele, but parties of go players have gone on guided tours of China from Europe, so it doesn't have to be ruled out. I suppose one problem with all cruises is that, apart from the cost of the cruise, you have to get to the port as well, but there are certainly some cheap cruises in Europe.

I can't speak for the US congresses, but the European congresses are actually already pretty family oriented and often take place in sites where non-players can have lots of fun - capital cities, forests, mountains and beaches have all featured. Maybe that's why they seem to attract much bigger attendances then the US????

Bump? I don't get it. Why is this thread left to die? Can we get some of these things looked at or talked about? I thought discussions was what we wanted. Is there anyway an AGA member involved in some of these decisions possibly comment on ANY of the suggestions? As far as I've seen, we suggested, then just got nothing. I thought the whole point was so we could have some feedback back and forth. At the very least, are any of these suggestions being looked into/ brought up between the AGA representatives?