Life In 19x19

oren wrote:.. for unknown quality of code ...

Well, the actual quality of the code can be found out by looking at it. Surely, the code has to be available during/before the 'bidding phase'.

SpongeBob wrote:

Bantari wrote:Try contributing here:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=566

Yeah, right - the last post in this thread is three years old and http://www.owgs.org/ points to nowhere.

See, it is very hard to get a project like this off the ground ...

Alright then, go raise the money.

But - if I were you I would first do two things:
1. make sure the original Kaya developers are willing (or its all just moot point and empty words), and
2. assembly a dedicated core team to work on open-source Kaya, with some assurances.

It does not do much to raise money, get the code, just to realize nobody is interested in working on it.
One of Kaya's problems was to put the cart before the horse. Lets not repeat this same mistake out of sheer enthusiasm.

Other than this - sail on, dude. All the power to you!

Kaya.gs is already virtually open source.

All you have to do to contribute is ask conanbatt, and he'll give you access to the relevant parts of the code.

But, whatever, do it again from scratch if you feel like it.

Kaya.gs is already virtually open source.

All you have to do to contribute is ask conanbatt, and he'll give you access to the relevant parts of the code.

That's 'you can contribute to kaya', not 'kaya is virtually open source'. Open source generally refers to at least an appropriately open license for the distribution of the code.

Xa17u wrote:Kaya.gs is already virtually open source.

All you have to do to contribute is ask conanbatt, and he'll give you access to the relevant parts of the code.

That really isn't what open source means

if we start another server...can kaya be successful?
go community is very limited.
i am already a member of 6 different server.
do you think having another server is what we need?

Magicwand wrote:if we start another server...can kaya be successful?
go community is very limited.
i am already a member of 6 different server.
do you think having another server is what we need?

I was not talking about another server. I was talking about making kaya the server that it should be with lots of players enjoying to play there.

SpongeBob wrote:

Bantari wrote:Try contributing here:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=566

Yeah, right - the last post in this thread is three years old and http://www.owgs.org/ points to nowhere.

The code is still online, though, and it was last updated 8 months ago: https://github.com/Tecuya/owgs

Somebody also mentioned http://govsgo.com/ in the original Kaya announcement thread from almost 2 years ago. That site looks to be up and running and the code is online too: https://github.com/ryanb/govsgo and was last updated 2 months ago.

SpongeBob wrote:

Magicwand wrote:if we start another server...can kaya be successful?
go community is very limited.
i am already a member of 6 different server.
do you think having another server is what we need?

I was not talking about another server. I was talking about making kaya the server that it should be with lots of players enjoying to play there.

Respectfully, you can have the perfect server in terms of coding, but if nobody uses it then it is useless, hence Magicwand's question.

PaperTiger wrote:

SpongeBob wrote:

Bantari wrote:Try contributing here:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=566

Yeah, right - the last post in this thread is three years old and http://www.owgs.org/ points to nowhere.

The code is still online, though, and it was last updated 8 months ago: https://github.com/Tecuya/owgs

Somebody also mentioned http://govsgo.com/ in the original Kaya announcement thread from almost 2 years ago. That site looks to be up and running and the code is online too: https://github.com/ryanb/govsgo and was last updated 2 months ago.

So there you have it!
Thanks, PaperTiger.

Javaness2 wrote:Respectfully, you can have the perfect server in terms of coding, but if nobody uses it then it is useless, hence Magicwand's question.

Ah, I see - thanks.

There was a lot of hype around kaya - and I think for a reason: people were looking for a modern UI, features like Fisher timing, voice countdown and a Tygem-like lag handling. With all that, many users would switch over from KGS, I am sure.

SpongeBob wrote:

Javaness2 wrote:Respectfully, you can have the perfect server in terms of coding, but if nobody uses it then it is useless, hence Magicwand's question.

Ah, I see - thanks.

There was a lot of hype around kaya - and I think for a reason: people were looking for a modern UI, features like Fisher timing, voice countdown and a Tygem-like lag handling. With all that, many users would switch over from KGS, I am sure.

I would not. KGS is best because it has largest English language speaking go playing society. And has sufficient features for chit chat. So that will guarantee that it will stand whatever competition for quite long.

Out things you mention lag handling is only one of any interest. On modernity: people play on Wbaduk so being very old fashioned does not seem to hurt....

Bantari wrote:PS>
Didn't they have some open-source server projects out there? I seem to remember something like that a while back... where did that go?

Maybe it was UGS? There's 20 people willing to work on it, so it should be off the ground in no time!

Development separated from administration.

Maybe what we need is not to create a better go server and compete with existing servers but to develop a opensource go server framework that is easy to customize and have existing ageing go servers switch to it or go associations run it. Better mousetrap and all ...

I think the point should be to improve on-line go playing experience overall.

The OP's intentions are good, however provided with funds, those should go directly into the development for Kaya, either by our hands or independent developers.
All and any funding of the project should go into helping Kaya be a better server as it's always been.

Right from the start open sourcing was always an option we considered. It is part of my vision for a server to be constantly evolving and improving, and Open sourcing the server might be the solution to achieve and continue that independent of my capacity and ability.

OpenKaya is proof of our intentions to have an open platform, where many people contributed libraries and utilities used on the server, like the rating system, scoring and estimator algorithms, time systems and more. We have built APIs that collaborate with external sites as well.

Open source means that anyone has the capacity to read code in a platform they use or consume. It doesn't mean that an open source venture is absolutely free or that people working it are doing it for free.

What other uses code readers can do on open sourced code is mainly dependent on licenses.

Also, it does not mean that any programmer can perform a code change and see the effects on the server as he pleases: it has to go through a controller that verifies that there is no malicious code, bugs or simply detrimental to the service in one way or another.

I was the code controller in Open Kaya, providing coordination, assistance, testing and doing hard-code contributions, and would gladly be so for any other part of Kaya that gets open sourced.

Open-sourcing however is not a silver bullet. There are other go servers right now that are actually open source and they don't get a swarm of contributors. Kaya has a much better position to pull this one off though.

However there are consequences. Once the code is open, potential security or usage exploits become a lot easier to find. Ideally, those that find the issues contribute to fixing them, either by reporting them or by performing the fixes themselves. With malicious intent, provoking issues could be very detrimental, causing downtime or other plethora of issues.
This means that we have to be able to respond to such issues in a timely fashion to protect our users.

Its also a commitment on our part to document and assist the community into contributing. OpenKaya is worked that way, but the server and the full client require a much higher level of commitment on our part and also on a potential contributor.

In a regular programming job, its not uncommon to spend the first 2 days working over the local environment to set it up.

It is in my best interest to create a community of contributors around Kaya, that is the guarantee that im interested and open-minded about this topic.
To make an open source initiative effective, we need to be very well organized and prepare ourselves for it, making an informed and very conscious decision.

There are so many fronts and covert-ops projects on Kaya and it has many features ready to explode on the client, provided with more development power.

------ OT -------

At one time we toyed with the idea of making a Feature market. So ideas could be taken from uservoice and posted there, and estimated in cost. Then people could directly fund a feature they wanted.

The idea seemed hard to make and mantain so we dropped it

----- OT 2 -----

Kaya now has also Ayabot!
And we actually made a release today, related to a much better translation support.