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Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:46 pm
by John Fairbairn
I'm revisiting this thread because Hiramoto has updated his own thoughts in the latest Go World (Feb 2015), and has given more details of what he calls the "Hiramoto Method". These extra details add quite a bit of insight into how he makes the process more effective than just visualising a go position in your head before you got to sleep and (if you can do that) trying to solve it in your head.

Two techniques stand out. One is to train your brain first with simple positions. One he shows is below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------[/go]


The other technique is to make the tsumego positions memorable, and this is where Hiramoto's special skill comes in. His shtick is to create tsumego that depict kanji, letters or numbers, but with the important feature that he manages to do this without any redundant stones.

The latest GW has a large collection, ranging in difficulty from 9-kyu to dan level. You can download this latest issue via the Nihon Ki-in for a very small fee, and the supplement to this issue has all the problems (one for each letter a to z and one for each number 0-9) in easy to follow format. If you read Japanese there is also an article inside the actual issue. In this he says his method has met with a good critical reception, as a result of which various publications are planned.

Leaving aside the ulterior motive of the method, some problems are very unusual and nice simply as ordinary tsumegos.

Here are a couple of examples that do indeed seem very easy to visualise and memorise (solutions omitted, but by all means offer your own - hidden, of course). The first is the letter 'z' and is rated as 3-kyu.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play: Letter 'z' - 3-kyu level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | X X X O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , .
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | X . O . . O . . . . .
$$ | X X X O O . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


The next problem is at least 5-dan level and is one he says he is especially pleased with.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X . . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


An interesting comment he makes is that the grades he gives are for life and death only, and may not correspond to actual-game strength.

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:18 pm
by skydyr
For the first one:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | X X X O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 . X O . . . . . , .
$$ | . X . 3 O . . . . . .
$$ | X . O 1 . O . . . . .
$$ | X X X O O . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | X X X O . . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . X O . . . . . , .
$$ | . X . 2 O . . . . . .
$$ | X a O 1 . O . . . . .
$$ | X X X O O . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Miai, and white is short of liberties to push in and atari at A.

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:51 am
by Krama
The 5 dan one is seki right?

Seems a little bit too easy for a sdk like me.. I am probably wrong :D

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:34 am
by RBerenguel
John Fairbairn wrote:I'm revisiting this thread because Hiramoto has updated his own thoughts in the latest Go World (Feb 2015), and has given more details of what he calls the "Hiramoto Method". These extra details add quite a bit of insight into how he makes the process more effective than just visualising a go position in your head before you got to sleep and (if you can do that) trying to solve it in your head.

Two techniques stand out. One is to train your brain first with simple positions. One he shows is below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------[/go]


The other technique is to make the tsumego positions memorable, and this is where Hiramoto's special skill comes in. His shtick is to create tsumego that depict kanji, letters or numbers, but with the important feature that he manages to do this without any redundant stones.

The latest GW has a large collection, ranging in difficulty from 9-kyu to dan level. You can download this latest issue via the Nihon Ki-in for a very small fee, and the supplement to this issue has all the problems (one for each letter a to z and one for each number 0-9) in easy to follow format. If you read Japanese there is also an article inside the actual issue. In this he says his method has met with a good critical reception, as a result of which various publications are planned.

Leaving aside the ulterior motive of the method, some problems are very unusual and nice simply as ordinary tsumegos.

Here are a couple of examples that do indeed seem very easy to visualise and memorise (solutions omitted, but by all means offer your own - hidden, of course). The first is the letter 'z' and is rated as 3-kyu.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to play: Letter 'z' - 3-kyu level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | X X X O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , .
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | X . O . . O . . . . .
$$ | X X X O O . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


The next problem is at least 5-dan level and is one he says he is especially pleased with.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X . . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


An interesting comment he makes is that the grades he gives are for life and death only, and may not correspond to actual-game strength.


I don't know how I missed this post/article 2 years ago, thanks John. Last August I used Masaaki's 5x5 book for a week or so, before going to bed I'd memorise one of the problems and try to solve it in my mind's eye before falling asleep (totally unaware of this article, so I guess a lot of people may have tried in the past). They are not easy to memorise (since the shapes are quite unnatural) and have the further "weight" of needing to count the territory of each side before deciding you have actually "solved it."

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:03 pm
by Shaddy
Krama:

Is this the seki you found?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . 2 . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


I thought that was the answer for a few hours, but how to reply to
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

?

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:04 pm
by Uberdude
Shaddy:
Shaddy wrote:I thought that was the answer for a few hours, but how to reply to
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

?

It's late so maybe I'm being dumb, but what's wrong with simple block?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . a , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O b . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Now a and b are miai, and we can ignore white a to play b because we already made 1 eye in the corner. (I didn't actually try to solve this problem yet).

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:08 pm
by Shaddy
Uberdude wrote:Shaddy:
Shaddy wrote:I thought that was the answer for a few hours, but how to reply to
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

?

It's late so maybe I'm being dumb, but what's wrong with simple block?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . a , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O b . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Now a and b are miai, and we can ignore white a to play b because we already made 1 eye in the corner. (I didn't actually try to solve this problem yet).



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . a , . O . . . , .
$$ | 4 X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O b . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:39 am
by Uberdude
Ah, nice!

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:38 am
by Krama
Shaddy wrote:
Uberdude wrote:Shaddy:
Shaddy wrote:I thought that was the answer for a few hours, but how to reply to
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

?

It's late so maybe I'm being dumb, but what's wrong with simple block?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . a , . O . . . , .
$$ | . X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O b . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Now a and b are miai, and we can ignore white a to play b because we already made 1 eye in the corner. (I didn't actually try to solve this problem yet).



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . a , . O . . . , .
$$ | 4 X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O b . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Just take at a6 and you can make 2 eyes.

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:03 am
by Uberdude
Krama
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 5 O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 a 6 , . O . . . , .
$$ | 4 X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O b . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

a/b miai now as a falsifies the eye and no way black can make it a real eye in sente.

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:07 am
by gogeo
Hello,
I was trying to find or buy this newspaper. Can someone help me to get it?

Cheers
Darek

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:48 am
by oren
gogeo wrote:Hello,
I was trying to find or buy this newspaper. Can someone help me to get it?


Easiest ways are buy from here for electronic copy

https://e-gobooks.nihonkiin.or.jp/produ ... ct_id=2043

or here for physical.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%9C%88%E5%88 ... 00R1MLZ0E/

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:18 pm
by gonut
Uberdude wrote:Krama
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B to play: Letter 'i' - 5-dan level
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 5 O O O . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X . . O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 a 6 , . O . . . , .
$$ | 4 X 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ | O X O b . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

a/b miai now as a falsifies the eye and no way black can make it a real eye in sente.


Black plays 5 at 6 instead, with a ko to live. Yes?

Offhand, I don't see a way for Black to live outright.

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:47 am
by oren
A two book set with just this technique separate from the Go World magazine is now available.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E7%9C%A0%E3%82 ... 01&sr=1-34

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E7%9C%A0%E3%82 ... 413&sr=1-1

Re: New tsume-go technique

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:38 am
by i3ullseye
This seems very Zen to me. Like focusing on a koan. I would assume that's no coincidence, and people may have used this for study throughout the years. Very cool idea.