Life In 19x19

karaklis wrote:

Suji wrote:Also, I think that chess has many advantages over go.

So what are the advantages of chess? Share your opinion.

Like Suji, I am better at chess than go. I love both games, but here are a few things I miss about chess when I am away from it for too long:

I like the fact that pieces have different qualities. Pieces can work together in interesting ways that are not possible when all pieces are identical. In particular the difference between pawns and other sorts of pieces creates a really interesting balance between static and dynamic qualities in a position.

I know that go is a lot more dynamic than it looks from the fact that stones do not move, but chess is more dynamic still. Positions can change into very different positions over the course of a game (and sure, I know about furikawari etc., but the transformation of one sort of position to another is more important still in chess).

I prefer chess endgames to go endgames. In go endgames the life and death of groups has been settled, and what's left is largely a (very interesting!) math problem. Chess endgames can remain very dynamic and exciting all the way to the end.

And by the way, I think these wacky chess sets are an abomination. It's like trying to read a classic novel printed in a ransom note font.

I find kaya gobans and slate & shell stones far more attractive than chess sets. Anybody agrees with me?

I think a nice chess set looks pretty good (novelty chess sets don't count). I couldn't justify getting one myself though.



edit: and I'm 50/50 about the Lewis set personally.

oren wrote:I'll always remember Battle Chess fondly. Even if I was always bad at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Chess

I discovered Battle Chess many years later when I was playing with an Amiga emulator. Bizarrely enough, Battle Chess II was Chinese Chess. (At least, the version that I have is.) It was painfully slow, though.

For real-life chess I love well-made Staunton sets about as much as a nice Go set, but I have to admit that I loving browsing for themed sets in shops and on the Internet. I rarely see one that I would actually buy, as I do slightly agree with them being abominations, but I do have an Isle of Lewis set on my long term wishlist.

Following the abomination of novelty chess sets, I have to give honourable mention to the Alien vs. Predator Chess Set, which leads on to this image.

Three posts in a row, but I have to say that chess needs no more than this to make it cool:

tealeaf wrote:Following the abomination of novelty chess sets, I have to give honourable mention to the Alien vs. Predator Chess Set, which leads on to this image.

So many awesome looking chess sets. And there is one I might actually buy. Mmmm...AvP.

And yes, that image is awesome. I would pay to watch that game.

And I must admit, my first love was chess. Over my life time, I'm pretty sure I've played more chess than Go. Slowly that is changing, but there's definitely something about that game.

I remember when I played a couple of friends and mopped the floor with them. Then it wasn't too much longer after that one of them started playing Go and has never played me in chess again. And now I'm better at Go than he is.

LovroKlc wrote:I find kaya gobans and slate & shell stones far more attractive than chess sets. Anybody agrees with me?

They're very pretty, but there's something about those differently themed chess sets that I like. If I liked chess as much as I like go, I might start collecting them.

tealeaf wrote:Following the abomination of novelty chess sets, I have to give honourable mention to the Alien vs. Predator Chess Set, which leads on to this image.

Thanks! I had a smaller version of that image, and wanted a larger one.

tealeaf wrote:Three posts in a row, but I have to say that chess needs no more than this to make it cool:

Is that nigiri?!

karaklis wrote:

Suji wrote:Also, I think that chess has many advantages over go.

So what are the advantages of chess? Share your opinion.

Like dfan, I like the different properties of the pieces. You have six different types of pieces, and the pieces work together in sometimes amazing ways.

Material value is extremely important in chess. Often, the person down a piece loses the game. This is something I've been struggling with in Go. I don't like to, in essence, "sacrifice" a stone. I've always thought that losing some firepower is bad unless you get an equal trade.

I think the biggest advantage of Chess over Go is the popularity around the world. Europe and Asia (for the most part) are home to the international chess scene. Also, almost everyone knows what chess is and how to play it. I've had to explain what Go is to just about everyone I've mentioned it to. Honestly, I hope that Go will one day be just as popular as Chess.

Another advantage of chess, is that professional games are easier to find. As an example, http://www.chessgames.com has over 554,000 chess games and nearly all of the most recent games. Older games are as complete as they can be. Sure some older games are missing, but that's just the nature of the beast. I've often wondered if a site like Chessgames.com could easily be transferred to Go. Meaning, could one build a site just like it for Go instead of Chess.

Chess news is more readily available than Go news (in English). http://www.chessbase.com is where chess enthusiasts go to find out about the latest tournaments and chess news. I haven't found a similar site for Go, yet.

Chess literature is easier to find in English, also. So, in theory, improvement is easier to come by in chess.

Suji wrote:Another advantage of chess, is that professional games are easier to find. As an example, http://www.chessgames.com has over 554,000 chess games and nearly all of the most recent games. Older games are as complete as they can be. Sure some older games are missing, but that's just the nature of the beast. I've often wondered if a site like Chessgames.com could easily be transferred to Go. Meaning, could one build a site just like it for Go instead of Chess.

From the point of view of one hobbyist studying a board game, pray tell, what is the difference between 554,000 games (Chessgames) and 60,350 games (GoGoD)? How many hundred games do you study in a week?

Gresil wrote:

Suji wrote:Another advantage of chess, is that professional games are easier to find. As an example, http://www.chessgames.com has over 554,000 chess games and nearly all of the most recent games. Older games are as complete as they can be. Sure some older games are missing, but that's just the nature of the beast. I've often wondered if a site like Chessgames.com could easily be transferred to Go. Meaning, could one build a site just like it for Go instead of Chess.

From the point of view of one hobbyist studying a board game, pray tell, what is the difference between 554,000 games (Chessgames) and 60,350 games (GoGoD)? How many hundred games do you study in a week?

- Larger dataset of games when studying openings (obviously this is not as relevant to Go)
- Possibility of studying up on medium-level future opponents by analyzing their games (also probably not as relevant)

There's also the fact that, for about £50, you can have on-demand access to a player that's stronger than any human, that can adjust its level to stretch you and teach new concepts, and that can analyse games for you to point out mistakes and possible alternatives.

Suji wrote:Another advantage of chess, is that professional games are easier to find. As an example, http://www.chessgames.com has over 554,000 chess games and nearly all of the most recent games. Older games are as complete as they can be. Sure some older games are missing, but that's just the nature of the beast. I've often wondered if a site like Chessgames.com could easily be transferred to Go. Meaning, could one build a site just like it for Go instead of Chess.

I don't know if all 554,000 chess games at the website are "professional games". According to the FAQ of chessgames.com, one of the sources of the games is the British Chess Game Archive. And this archive specifically says that it "is a national archive of British chess tournament games". I doubt all the participants of British chess tournament games are professionals.

If therefore it is mainly a database of strong chess players, then it would make sense to compare it with the BiGo Assistant Full Edition Databases (http://bigo.baduk.org/assistant_databases.html#Full) which advertises "Go game records database includes about 1 995 000 Go games records of strong (5 dan), very strong (6-7 dan) amateurs and professionals (about 62 000 games with at least one pro player). There are very few games of weak players."

Not the cheapest go database in the world but if quantity is what someone like dfan is looking for with a larger dataset of games when studying openings, then this might be just the database to buy.