Page 2 of 4

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:21 am
by EdLee
( For beginners. ) :w7: is forced; then, (a) direction and (b) direction can be considered Miai --
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
One possible continuation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #220 shinkenjoe(4k) vs lesenv(10k) 5H

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:25 am
by lesenv
EdLee,
:b6: cuts off :w3: from :w5:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 6 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As to where else to play, I have no clue, that's why i went with the cut. But probably:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . a . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . b . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . 3 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a are big points, b is big, too. and more it pincers the white group.

When stronger players tenuki, i sometimes think that there's a mistake. Here i even don't know where this will go if i play at a point at a. This is too complicated, i can't even *guess* the next 2 moves. not to speak of *read*.

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:21 pm
by EdLee
lesenv,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X y . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . x 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For :b6:, B has two options to block : block at (x), or block at (y).
Each one is not a cut; each is a block.

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:34 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . d . . X y . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . x 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
( For beginners. ) For lesenv's comment about other options for :b6: instead of blocking at (x) or (y),
B also has (c) and (d), and other options.

Re:

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:00 pm
by skydyr
EdLee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X y . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . x 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For :b6:, B has two options to block : block at (x), or block at (y).
Each one is not a cut; each is a block.


Given that white can connect to both stones with one move on the 2-2 point, I think it's arguable that black is cutting.

Re: #220 shinkenjoe(4k) vs lesenv(10k) 5H

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:49 pm
by Shinkenjoe
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 6 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




only move. He will try to seal me in, maybe im forced once more. The question is, if i should tenuki or make a base for three?

Re: Re:

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:15 am
by Boidhre
skydyr wrote:
EdLee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X y . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . x 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For :b6:, B has two options to block : block at (x), or block at (y).
Each one is not a cut; each is a block.


Given that white can connect to both stones with one move on the 2-2 point, I think it's arguable that black is cutting.


Usually cut is used when you're separating two stones/groups that are in contact.

Re: Re:

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:18 am
by skydyr
Boidhre wrote:
skydyr wrote:
EdLee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X y . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . x 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For :b6:, B has two options to block : block at (x), or block at (y).
Each one is not a cut; each is a block.


Given that white can connect to both stones with one move on the 2-2 point, I think it's arguable that black is cutting.


Usually cut is used when you're separating two stones/groups that are in contact.

I always took it to be separating two stones or groups that had the ability to be in contact with a strengthening move. In this case, black does block white from one side or the other, but in doing so, black also cuts off one of the white approach stones.

Re: Re:

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:58 am
by Boidhre
skydyr wrote:
I always took it to be separating two stones or groups that had the ability to be in contact with a strengthening move. In this case, black does block white from one side or the other, but in doing so, black also cuts off one of the white approach stones.


I've generally seen split or separate used to describe such a move. *shrugs*

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:09 pm
by EdLee

Re: #220 shinkenjoe(4k) vs lesenv(10k) 5H

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:37 am
by lesenv
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Option A: the descent
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Option A: the descent
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 9 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 2 1 7 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O 6 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this looks good, but what if white connects?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Option A: i'm easily cut
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . 0 b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 9 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 8 X . W . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . 3 2 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . 1 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hm, white gets either a or b while i get to choose. i don't know...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Option A: doesn't work either
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 9 6 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 7 X . W . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . 3 2 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . 1 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Option A: a running fight
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 7 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . X . W . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . 3 2 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

in the descent-option i like most the running fight

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Option B: pressure the bottom
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . B . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Option B: pressure the bottom
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . 1 B . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 2 3 W O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 4 5 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i like this, but that's not too probable

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Option B: pressure the bottom
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , 8 1 B . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 W O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 5 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i like this too.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Option B: pressure the bottom
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , 3 1 B . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 W O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here I don't know, but i kind of like it. while i have influence with the tengen, white has two weak(?) groups. i don't know whether i can profit from these groups...or s the influence already the profit??? :-?
But option B looks better than A to my eyes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Option C: pressure the right
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Option C: ok, white has to respond locally
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 0 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B 6 5 7 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 3 2 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

uh-oh
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Option C: aargh
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B 6 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 3 2 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


hmm, i think the bottom-option was best.
what about another pincer?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm8 Prisoner:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 2 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

YEAH!! I'm getting tired of searching for better options.
This looks good, but what if he does something completely different? then I'll learn something new. hopefully :roll:

in hindsight i knew that the right side or the bottom side would suffer for white when i blocked at q3. I just wanted to look if there's something else. apparently the obvious move is the right move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm8 Prisoner:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #220 shinkenjoe(4k) vs lesenv(10k) 5H

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:32 pm
by Shinkenjoe
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm8 Prisoner:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I should tenuki more. He will pincer again. Then i have to tenuki.

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:28 pm
by EdLee
( For beginners. ) B can consider killing :wc: completely with :b1: --
it's a big move, fixing all the aji there. If W double approaches :bc:, B can easily take care of it.
Next, (a) also becomes a big move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 1 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . W . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:34 pm
by EdLee
( For beginners. ) For the LR corner, if W plays :w1:, B has to be careful.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . X 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . |
$$ X . . O . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------[/go]
If B plays the tiger's mouth :b2:, W can then connect back to :wc: with :w3: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . X 1 . . . |
$$ . . . 2 . X O . . |
$$ X . . W . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------[/go]
Instead, if B connects directly with :b2:, then if W :w3:, B can block with :b4: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . X 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . 2 X O . . |
$$ X . . O . X O . . |
$$ . . . . 4 3 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------[/go]

Re: #220 shinkenjoe(4k) vs lesenv(10k) 5H

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:43 am
by lesenv
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm8 Prisoner:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i almost backed off, but then this seems lacking of fighting-spirit.
i didn't use the same pincer and usually i'll pincer with the one-space-pincer.

@EdLee
thank you for contributing! i can't wait to read all those hidden broken shapes that i missed...