Checklist of questions for thoughtful play?

[SpongeBob]

But you have to admit that the advice or summation: "Play the biggest move" is nothing else that the advice "Play the best move" simply because biggest = best in a game that is decided by territory. So the advice does not have any content for somebody who already knows the rules.

The advice or summation "Play urgent moves before big moves." however, DOES contain some relevant information.

[Violence]

I honestly hate those three rules. I can't stand them, and I dislike the fact that shygost parades them around in front of a mass of kyu players as if he's speaking the gospel.

* Am I ok? (am I about to get hurt or hassled?)
* Is the opponent ok? (can I chase or hassle the opponent to get profit?)
* Where is big area? (going for wide area or big points)

Whenever I watch shygost demos, I find that a lot of his moves are awful. I mean like... comically bad. Araban has written, in fact, a lengthy blog post on shygost, and I agree with him on most of the points. Shygost will make a bad move, then he'll use some combinations of proverbs that he knows to rationalize it. I feel that this attitude is detrimental to playing Go, not to mention playing it thoughtfully.

In fact, I feel that it hinders thoughtful play, and promotes thoughtless play.

I have no weak groups. My opponent has no weak groups. Take biggest point.

I have a weak group. Defend group.

I have no weak groups. My opponent has a weak group. Attack.



I feel that the questions themselves cloud the mind from what stronger players really think about during games.

First of all, weakness and strength is something you should constantly monitor, until it becomes an instinct. You can just look at something and feel how strong it is. It's something that comes from experience, honestly. It should be considered, but it isn't really thoughtful.

The big locations on the board are likewise part instinct, part learned theory. If it's a wide area, it's probably big. These are to be kept track of, but they aren't really thoughtful, are they?



Thoughtful play emerges when someone knows the usual way that something is played, and then deviates in an unusual manner which is superior to the usual. Running with the knight's move, because cutting it is impossible. Attaching to a weak stone, because it's part of a sequence to kill a group.

Whenever you play a move that you didn't play because of some proverb, or because of what someone told you to do, or because you asked yourself a set of fixed questions, some kind of play that involves your own thought process and reasoning, that's when you've played something thoughtful. A checklist for thoughtfulness, I believe, is a complete oxymoron.

[daal]

...I feel that the questions themselves cloud the mind from what stronger players really think about during games.

First of all, weakness and strength is something you should constantly monitor, until it becomes an instinct. You can just look at something and feel how strong it is. It's something that comes from experience, honestly. It should be considered, but it isn't really thoughtful.

The big locations on the board are likewise part instinct, part learned theory. If it's a wide area, it's probably big. These are to be kept track of, but they aren't really thoughtful, are they?

Thoughtful play emerges when someone knows the usual way that something is played, and then deviates in an unusual manner which is superior to the usual. Running with the knight's move, because cutting it is impossible. Attaching to a weak stone, because it's part of a sequence to kill a group.

Whenever you play a move that you didn't play because of some proverb, or because of what someone told you to do, or because you asked yourself a set of fixed questions, some kind of play that involves your own thought process and reasoning, that's when you've played something thoughtful. A checklist for thoughtfulness, I believe, is a complete oxymoron.

Perhaps you're right that thoughtfulness isn't the right word, but with all due respect, I think you've completely forgotten how truly clueless some of us are. The guidelines are for people who have *no* idea where to play next. Also, they don't tell you where to play, but rather give a weak player an idea what he should be looking for. Thinking about what is the best way to defend or attack a weak group does involve one's own thought process. The checklist doesn't give you the automatic move, but suggests places to look and helps the weaker player acquire the instinct to constantly monitor the strength of groups. Of course stronger players deviate from proverbs because they can read the consequences, but the starting point is recognizing a situation to be assessed, and if you can't do that yet, such guidelines and proverbs will indeed help you at least to find the obvious move before creatively deviating from it.