Life In 19x19

Bantari wrote:I hope you see more problems than just 'hassle' when talking about pirating books.

Eh? You think people who do this even remotely consider this as immoral?

Boidhre wrote:

Bantari wrote:I hope you see more problems than just 'hassle' when talking about pirating books.

Eh? You think people who do this even remotely consider this as immoral?

Was hoping they do... apparently not.
Was hoping their excuse was ignorance... apparently they cannot even claim that.

amnal wrote:Anders Kierulf did release details of the smartgo book format at http://www.smartgo.com/blog/20130710.htm , so it should be possible to create a viewer for any platform. I would investigate it myself if I had time, though another barrier is having no example files to test with.

Sure, but you can't actually buy the interesting content outside of the Smartgo app.

Bantari wrote:

Boidhre wrote:

Bantari wrote:I hope you see more problems than just 'hassle' when talking about pirating books.

Eh? You think people who do this even remotely consider this as immoral?

Was hoping they do... apparently not.
Was hoping their excuse was ignorance... apparently they cannot even claim that.

I'm thinking of a game a friend of mine's company released for Android and iOS. It was free to play with some in-app purchases for power-ups etc but you nothing excessive, you could reasonably play the game without putting a penny into it. Within a few weeks there was a hacked version of the app with unlimited in-game "gold" available in China. The interesting thing was, they hadn't released in China yet, or localised it, but a pirate group had not only gone to the trouble of hacking it but translating everything as well and releasing it for free.

Ignorance of what they're doing is the last thing these people suffer from.

Boidhre wrote:I'm thinking of a game a friend of mine's company released for Android and iOS. It was free to play with some in-app purchases for power-ups etc but you nothing excessive, you could reasonably play the game without putting a penny into it. Within a few weeks there was a hacked version of the app with unlimited in-game "gold" available in China. The interesting thing was, they hadn't released in China yet, or localised it, but a pirate group had not only gone to the trouble of hacking it but translating everything as well and releasing it for free.

Ignorance of what they're doing is the last thing these people suffer from.

Not saying people who hack and pirate are not knowledgeable. Often a lot of skill is needed.
My point is that they seem ignorant of the damage they are doing in the long run.
But maybe this is not correct as well. Maybe they just don't care...

Bantari wrote:...
My point is that they seem ignorant of the damage they are doing in the long run.
But maybe this is not correct as well. Maybe they just don't care...

What is considered damage by one individual may be considered in a different light by another. It's entirely possible for someone to believe that they are "doing the right thing", while from another viewpoint, be committing a crime.

Kirby wrote:

Bantari wrote:...
My point is that they seem ignorant of the damage they are doing in the long run.
But maybe this is not correct as well. Maybe they just don't care...

What is considered damage by one individual may be considered in a different light by another. It's entirely possible for someone to believe that they are "doing the right thing", while from another viewpoint, be committing a crime.

This is very true.
But, as in many such cases, its not really a democracy, and the opinion of of the actual author/owner of the work carries the most weight, imho.

What you are saying is that, as long as you personally do not have a moral problem with something, its ok for you to do it, regardless of what anybody things - everybody can have an opinion, and what's considered good for you, and all that... Well, beside such attitude being a very slippery slope, I say that the rights of the author/owner of the work always take precedence. If the author/owner agrees to give it for free, or to allow piracy, its their choice to make. If they don't, then I can't see an argument which would convince me that its still ok to pirate//steal it, and its a matter of personal opinion.

Having said the above, I am aware that different countries have different rules/laws, so it is not a very simple issue.
But morally speaking - I will always support the rights of the author/owner.

Bantari wrote:

Boidhre wrote:I'm thinking of a game a friend of mine's company released for Android and iOS. It was free to play with some in-app purchases for power-ups etc but you nothing excessive, you could reasonably play the game without putting a penny into it. Within a few weeks there was a hacked version of the app with unlimited in-game "gold" available in China. The interesting thing was, they hadn't released in China yet, or localised it, but a pirate group had not only gone to the trouble of hacking it but translating everything as well and releasing it for free.

Ignorance of what they're doing is the last thing these people suffer from.

Not saying people who hack and pirate are not knowledgeable. Often a lot of skill is needed.
My point is that they seem ignorant of the damage they are doing in the long run.
But maybe this is not correct as well. Maybe they just don't care...

From talking to friends whose works are affected by this either they fall into the a) ignorant that they're taking food off the table of someone (generally the pfd uploaders, teenagers etc), b) "THE DATA MUST BE FREE!11!!" ones (generally delusional psuedo-Marxists IT heads) or c) couldn't give a crap, cracking stuff and releasing it is a pastime (generally the ones involved in more complex codec breaking or whatever).


This of course ignores the criminal ones who do it for a profit.

Boidhre wrote:From talking to friends whose works are affected by this either they fall into the a) ignorant that they're taking food off the table of someone (generally the pfd uploaders, teenagers etc), b) "THE DATA MUST BE FREE!11!!" ones (generally delusional psuedo-Marxists IT heads) or c) couldn't give a crap, cracking stuff and releasing it is a pastime (generally the ones involved in more complex codec breaking or whatever).

Isn't talking the victims of this activity a bit of an odd way to establish the motives of the people who perform the acts? You have portrayed them in a very negative way, which is not surprising given the people you have spoken to.

quantumf wrote:

Boidhre wrote:From talking to friends whose works are affected by this either they fall into the a) ignorant that they're taking food off the table of someone (generally the pfd uploaders, teenagers etc), b) "THE DATA MUST BE FREE!11!!" ones (generally delusional psuedo-Marxists IT heads) or c) couldn't give a crap, cracking stuff and releasing it is a pastime (generally the ones involved in more complex codec breaking or whatever).

Isn't talking the victims of this activity a bit of an odd way to establish the motives of the people who perform the acts? You have portrayed them in a very negative way, which is not surprising given the people you have spoken to.

It's the justifications that they've seen given when people get caught/told off within the community. I'm portraying them in a negative way because, well, yeah what they're doing is negative. Piracy is very common, that doesn't make it morally just or any nonsense like that.

Bantari wrote:But morally speaking - I will always support the rights of the author/owner.

Even hundreds of years after the author's death?

Without diving into the right or wrong implications of pirating: The common misconception I'm so fed up with is assuming every pirated copy would be a copy sold.
Videogame-related but gog.com sells games without any protection and they already run and expand for years. Humblebundle.com does not even "sell" games because you can give as much as you like and they take in millions of dollars every week. Kickstarter.com gets people to spend millions of dollars for projects they like and deem worth the money.

In the end, as I see it, there is money and there are people who like to spend it.