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Re: For a beginner, which pro players to study first?
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:52 pm
by tekesta
Phoenix wrote:I only offer this as personal opinion.
When I started, it became clear to me quite quickly that I couldn't understand 95% of what was going on in a pro game. Despite this, I memorized a few of Shusaku's games (it had been pointed out in HnG that he was the best of the best
) and simply played them through and tried to get the feel for the 'flow of stones' (again, HnG-induced).
Shūsaku was legendary, but so was Honinbō Shūei, even though not many have heard of him.As it turns out, I soon began to beat my friends by ridiculous margins in our games. As it turns out, I did unconsciously learn a bit about 'direction of play' and important/unimportant areas, big and small moves, etc. Mostly, I learned to play with much better shape. Shape being a factor in efficiency (and therefore in winning), it ended up helping a lot. I feel I still carry the advantage this original 'push' to this day.
Just an idea.
Which brings me back to my original supposition. For the beginner it might be better to study games by Shūsaku or Shūei. (Games by Huang Longshi would be better for those learning how to use outward influence IMO, but I am sure the territorial player as well can gain benefit from studying these.) Modern players are good to study for more advanced topics such as the latest jōseki and modern styles of play, but for developing a foundation in the game, replaying games by the above mentioned players might be better, as their style of play is more straightforward and - at least for me - easier to understand. Also, the general method of play in Go (corners, sides, then center) has not changed much since the days of Shūsaku and Shūei - even though fuseki and jōseki have evolved a lot since then.
Re: For a beginner, which pro players to study first?
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:44 pm
by Boidhre
tekesta wrote:Which brings me back to my original supposition. For the beginner it might be better to study games by Shūsaku or Shūei. (Games by Huang Longshi would be better for those learning how to use outward influence IMO, but I am sure the territorial player as well can gain benefit from studying these.) Modern players are good to study for more advanced topics such as the latest jōseki and modern styles of play, but for developing a foundation in the game, replaying games by the above mentioned players might be better, as their style of play is more straightforward and - at least for me - easier to understand. Also, the general method of play in Go (corners, sides, then center) has not changed much since the days of Shūsaku and Shūei - even though fuseki and jōseki have evolved a lot since then.
Honestly, I don't think it matters. The beginner won't understand the games of either, never mind the concepts contained within. What you're looking to do, like Phoenix is talking about, is to internalise good shape, get a feeling for big areas vs small areas and other such *unconscious* processes. You'll get those from studying any very high level game. You won't on the other hand really "learn how to use outward influence" because sure while you can see the move they made but you won't be able to read out
why that move was the right move there. It's the same with the joseki, sure you can see the complex joseki played out but you're unlikely to know why they picked that particular variation. Commented games are good for the latter simply because someone much stronger than you has done the reading for you.