Life In 19x19

ethanb wrote:

Harleqin wrote:That is the point: a lesson does not simply follow the SGF nodes, it jumps around and perhaps even changes them. Therefore, it is conceptually not possible to incorporate such a lesson into an SGF file. Instead, you need a format that describes the actions; this format can operate on an SGF file.

The alternative is of course to have prepared slides, but this means that the teacher has more work before the lesson.

Did you read my earlier post? You put multiple timestamps in the node, so that it says "display this at 15 seconds in, 75 seconds in, and 92 seconds into the audio stream."

EDIT: you may have a similar (but quite understandable!) misconception about the SGF tree. An SGF node does not equal a game move. An SGF node is simply a unit of logical delineation which may have any number of attributes associated with it, one of which MAY be a game move. So when the lecturer adds a label to an existing position while recording the audio commentary, it would create a new node with no additional moves, but a label (and audio timestamp) only.

(00:00:00 sgf 0 (;GM[1]...
  ))
(00:00:10 next-node)
(00:00:12 next-node)
(00:00:14 next-node)
(00:00:18 next-node)
(00:00:30 jump-to-node 58)
(00:01:03 mark-circle c i)
(00:03:54 move black c j)
.
.
.
(00:24:27 sgf 1 (;GM[1]...
  ))
(00:25:43 jump-to-node 34)
(00:27:05 jump-to-sgf 0)
.
.
.

Harleqin wrote:

ethanb wrote:

Harleqin wrote:That is the point: a lesson does not simply follow the SGF nodes, it jumps around and perhaps even changes them. Therefore, it is conceptually not possible to incorporate such a lesson into an SGF file. Instead, you need a format that describes the actions; this format can operate on an SGF file.

The alternative is of course to have prepared slides, but this means that the teacher has more work before the lesson.

Did you read my earlier post? You put multiple timestamps in the node, so that it says "display this at 15 seconds in, 75 seconds in, and 92 seconds into the audio stream."

EDIT: you may have a similar (but quite understandable!) misconception about the SGF tree. An SGF node does not equal a game move. An SGF node is simply a unit of logical delineation which may have any number of attributes associated with it, one of which MAY be a game move. So when the lecturer adds a label to an existing position while recording the audio commentary, it would create a new node with no additional moves, but a label (and audio timestamp) only.

I was talking about the conceptual level. Yes, it is possible to do it with time stamps mangled into the SGF file, but it has to be compared to the alternative, which is much easier to parse and write (example syntax):

Code: Select all

(00:00:00 sgf 0 (;GM[1]...
  ))
(00:00:10 next-node)
(00:00:12 next-node)
(00:00:14 next-node)
(00:00:18 next-node)
(00:00:30 jump-to-node 58)
(00:01:03 mark-circle c i)
(00:03:54 move black c j)
.
.
.
(00:24:27 sgf 1 (;GM[1]...
  ))
(00:25:43 jump-to-node 34)
(00:27:05 jump-to-sgf 0)
.
.
.

This format describes what is actually supposed to happen, and seems much more flexible to me. Anyway, what I am aiming at is that the teacher's actions are orthogonal to the SGF tree. You might be successful in trying to press them into the tree itself, but I think that the way I show above is much easier to understand and implement. Still in other words: the SGF file is contained in the lesson, not the other way around (there may even be more than one SGF file in a lesson, as shown above).

Li Kao seems to use a similar approach.

ethanb wrote:It's more flexible in terms of what you can do with it, for sure - I was just saying he could get SGF import and export "for free" this way and if his file structure on disk is in a similar format (of course the memory structures should be as you describe when loaded from disk, which is also what I said in my earlier post with the example) then his entire file-processing function set becomes pretty clean. I like reusable code.

FrankdeGroot wrote:Moyo Go Studio has the ability to record audio (using speex). The advantage is that the audio is included as standard SGF. Moyo Go can be freely downloaded.

wms wrote:For the KGS lectures and Guo Juan's teaching site, I used an XML format that embeds changes to an SGF file. Something like this:

<addproperty nodeid="10" sgf="W[ae]"/>
<pause time="63943">
<addnode parentid="10" nodeid="11"/>
<addproperty nodeid="11" sgf="B[cj]TR[cj]"/>
<speex>98g74293p40231940923490 (imagine that this is a chunk of base64 data) oqeuth233dtoe</speex>

etc...the "speex" tags delimit base64 encoded speex data. Then I take the whole big XML file and zip it up. The sizes end up pretty tolerable, because zip gets rid of most of the overhead from XML and speex is very low bit rate.

But of course for a new project, do whatever seems best.